19-08-2004 01:04									#1
	NEW Civ2 Tournament August 16 - September 14, 2004 : SPOLIER Thread Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

main tournament thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=120693

DO NOT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ ANY SPOILER INFORMATION


































































































you've been warned

	19-08-2004 22:45									#2
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No helper programs, no black-clicking, no bribe...as usual.
I chose early conquest
... but didn't conquer that early
More details later on

	20-08-2004 08:39									#3
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I'm up to about 400 AD. I'm busily crushing the Mongrels, and the Gardens, Colossus, and Shakes are mine. Greeks are Supreme. As usual, I can't decide on an approach, so I'm playing a ICS/SSC/internal trade/expansionist approach. This is why I'm no good in early landing games or early conquest games.

Oh well, perhaps my score will look good in the end

	20-08-2004 15:46									#4
	BC years Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Switch to Monarchy in 2050BC.

A barb chariot kills by surprise my only strong defender (archer born from a hut) and comes close to Athens. No better choice than rushbuilding phalanx after phalanx. The chariot kills 3 in a row, before my mighty warrior gets rid the wild beast.

Marco completed in 875BC. The gardens in 325BC.

Situation at 1AD: conquering Spain, 8 cities (4,3,3,3,3,2,2,2), one of them conquered, 9 ellies, 5 crusaders, 6 triremes at work.

	20-08-2004 21:59									#5
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I'm just about to finish the Mongrels in 200AD - Japs next - Gardens, Colossus, Sun Tzu & Mike's and the Crooks are rolling - Athens size 8 couple of 4s the rest dirt holes - fun game

Stu

	21-08-2004 02:54									#6
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If you are going for early conquest, be advised that DaveV reports restarts are ON.

Good luck.

Monk

	21-08-2004 14:46									#7
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Thanks, Monk - I had assumed that to be the case, but it is good to know for sure...

Stu

	21-08-2004 23:01									#8
	Midgame: 1AD to 500AD Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Top priority after 1AD = build Mike (without forgetting conquest in the meantime).

Situation at 500AD:
No more Spain (Aztecs instead )
No more Mongolia (Indians instead )
No more Japan (Zulu instead )

20 cities
33 crusaders
6 ellies
12 triremes

	23-08-2004 11:03									#9
	AC Landing in 1851 Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Since there were no starting techs, I decided to go for an early landing, so no huts. In addition I have my own "rules" - no black clicking and no reputation hits.

Things went badly very quickly. I lost the collossus to the Mongols - I could have beaten them; I should have beaten them, but a cow flew by.

Then I chose communism as an off path tech - forgetting that it expires MPE.

I didn't notice until very late that the Spanish with whom I was trading, were on the same continent - I couldn't understand why the bonuses were so low.

After that it was fairly routine. The Mongols sneak attacked just before I built the last space ship part. My warriors were crushed by their tanks. Fortunately my partisans dug into the hills and held them up. Against a human player I would have been toast, but the poor AI allowed me to bribe back my lost city - picking up a cruise missile, an aegis cruiser and 5 bombers for about 250 gold. They then agreed a peace treaty which lasted to the end of the game.

I will post in the HoF shortly, but for the time being, here is my save.

RJM at Sleeper's

Attachment: ap_a1850.sav
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	23-08-2004 11:18									#10
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cool, first entry

feel free to make a separate thread with some screens and stuff

	23-08-2004 11:33									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG cool, first entry feel free to make a separate thread with some screens and stuff

Maybe, but all the game saves are on a different computer and I go on my holiday shortly, so I'm not sure I'll have time. Thanks for starting it. I enjoyed myself - the first time I've played civ for a while. I've posted my entry in the HoF, so everyone is invited to have a good laugh

RJM at Sleeper's

	23-08-2004 22:48									#12
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Thanks MarkG for running the show! Is Civ2 an Olympic sport now?

I went for population and Wonders early on, avoiding war (except with the nasty mongols) until I got gunpowder. Monarchy all the way.

Now it's 1798. I have 17 wonders, the pop is 15 million and my second major enemy, Spain, is falling. But Russia and China will learn about gunpowder soon, and my hopes of a quick victory by cannons are fading.

1) Why can't I build Cathedrals? I am using MGE and have the pre-req advances.

2) Some of you guys obviously know a lot more about playing Civ2 than is in the manual. Is there an online advice page with advanced strategies?

3) Is re-starting the game, or backing up to a .sav, considered a no-no?

Good luck.

	24-08-2004 01:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Peaster 1) Why can't I build Cathedrals? I am using MGE and have the pre-req advances. 2) Some of you guys obviously know a lot more about playing Civ2 than is in the manual. Is there an online advice page with advanced strategies? 3) Is re-starting the game, or backing up to a .sav, considered a no-no? Good luck.

1) If one of the Wonders you built was Mike's Chapel, then you will not be offered Cath's.

2) Check out the Great Library thread and Solo's Early Landing Guide thread for many good ideas. They can be found in the Strategy Forum.

3) Yes, re-loading is a no-no; doing backup saves is encouraged. While reloading the game when you get an undesirable result is perfectly acceptable in the beginning/learning phase, it is not an accepted practice in "social settings". Part of the game is dealing with unfortunate events.

Please feel welcome here and know that you have found a wonderful place to share and learn about this very special game. Any questions, please ask and you will find many to help you.

Monk

	24-08-2004 01:16									#14
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@Peaster

1) The prereq for building cathedrals is Monotheism. Most people try to build Michelangelo as soon as they discover Mono, and that Wonder replaces a cathedral in every city. Didn't you build Mike?

2) The best way to improve your gameplay is playing, and the best strategy guide is advice given by experienced players on this forum (and also Civfanatics).
Please, play, play, play and post here if you wish to ask a question.

3) Yes-yes

	24-08-2004 01:21									#15
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22.16 against 22.16 = the Monk beats me by less than one minute.
Fortunately the answer is the same

	24-08-2004 01:30									#16
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I have learned well from the master.

To expand, for the sake of clarity, it should have been explicitly stated that Mike's gives you a Catherdral in every city, and that, since you already have one everywhere, Cath no longer appears in the build list. (We both said almost that)

Monk (and it was 1516 here )

	24-08-2004 11:10									#17
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I'm pursuing STYOM's strategy to the letter, as usual, and I expect eventually to have similar results.....

Actually, it's 250 BC and I'm doing very well (for me), but now it's time for me to decide on a strategy -- early landing or conquest. I've never played an actual early landing game -- nowadays I always conquer, and before I learned to conquer, I played more of a land-first-if-I-can-but-never-early game -- so I'm leaning toward exploring the road I've never traveled before.

	24-08-2004 21:42									#18
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I'm approaching 1000AD - and am behind schedule
The Mongrels & Japanese are toast as soon will be the Babs & Germans. However, on the Spanish front I have hit a Maginot line of forts in forests which is slowing things down too much - and the dratted Russians not only have The Wall, but have taken to building cities on rivers! My losses are horrendous - even for me!

Stu

	25-08-2004 05:48									#19
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I'm trying a conquest game for a change of pace, but have not done this for so long that I have a question.

Does anyone know what happens if the last city of each AI is taken on the same turn (before 1500), eliminating all AI civs simultaneously? Do restarts still occur, or would this be counted as a victory.

Oops, just checked out the respawn thread, so my questions is answered!

Last edited by solo on 25-08-2004 at 06:00

	25-08-2004 06:54									#20
	late game: 500AD to 1000AD Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I thought I knew the name of the forthcoming winner (early conqueror), namely daveV, but here comes solo

Anyway, I hope both of them will have problems beating me by more than *a few* turns

Back to my game: at 500AD there were Germany, China and Russia left (+ 3 *respawning foes*).

The Germans had some walls, but were quite easy to beat. That induced me to think that my problem would be mostly logistics and that I would perhaps be able to achieve a pre-1000 conquest.

I was wrong: the Chinese had walls almost anywhere and the Russians had more than walls. They also had fortresses with strong units inside (... who was the guy who said that the AI builds fortresses in order to protect YOUR troops? ). Best guess: fortress on top of a mountain with pikeman inside.

I lost more than 20 valiant crusaders taking Moscow = no more hope of pre-1000 conquest.

Not far from it though. The situation at 1000AD is as follows:

35 cities
51 crusaders
2 ellies
23 triremes

China *almost* conquered
Russia *almost* conquered
Tenochtitlan bound to fall very soon
Delhi bound to fall very soon

	25-08-2004 08:59									#21
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Thanks for the answers and advice.

There are posts in the main thread that say "restarts are on" so it seemed legal at first. I did it a few times in the 4000-2000BC era. The HOF page says not to post "replays". I am not sure if my game counts as that, but I guess I'll post it, and accept disqualification if I broke any rules.

Anyway, my cannons finished the fight in 1834 - pretty late compared to the reports from LaFayette, Solo and Scouse Gits. I assume the best conquest is the earliest conquest. So, I must have started the fight too late. But it was good fun and I learned from it.

My score was about 1400-1500. I'll post the game as soon as I can. And read about strategy.

	25-08-2004 22:19									#22
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Peaster, "restarts on" means that when you eradicate a civilization, another civ of the same color will immediately spring up to replace it -- until certain conditions are met, which are still the subject of much uncertainty. If restarts are off, that just means that when you kill 'em, they stay dead.

	25-08-2004 22:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by debeest Peaster, "restarts on" means that when you eradicate a civilization, another civ of the same color will immediately spring up to replace it -- until certain conditions are met, which are still the subject of much uncertainty. If restarts are off, that just means that when you kill 'em, they stay dead.

Thanks, debeest; I have been puzzling over how to clear this up for Peaster, too.

Knowing now that "restarts on" has a particular meaning, perhaps it it is easier to see the difference between "restarts" and "replays". It is "replays", having a do-over, that is not allowed.

For my part, I see no reason why your effort should not be included (with an *-denoting a first time miscue). The purpose of these Tourneys is to fire up interest and play of the game. And that's a good thing.

Monk

	26-08-2004 02:18									#24
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La Fayette,

Don't worry too much about me in this one. I'm just back from vacation and may not even finish in time. It's been years since I've played for conquest in CivII, but your excellent respawn thread has given me a few ideas that I'm anxious to try out.

So far, I've had a decent start, trading for Ceremonial Burial with the Mongols before having to learn it. This allowed Monarchy by 2650, a great boost! Now it's 1600 and I've just learned Trade and am wondering whether to build HG or MPE first. Which way did you do it?

solo

	26-08-2004 02:49									#25
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quote: Originally posted by solo La Fayette, HG or MPE first. Which way did you do it? solo

Marco first: the AI civs are so happy to give me the map that will help me reach them ASAP and crush them

	26-08-2004 03:59									#26
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Hmm, good idea, but how do you crush them so early?

I decided on HG first, built in 1300, to allow more cities early on, but have followed that soon afterwards with MPE in 950. Now I have to start building an army. So far, no NON military units from huts for me.

My plan is to build a zillion cheap horsemen while researching to Invention for Leonardo's.

	26-08-2004 04:56									#27
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MPE first.

I have not tested this, but it seems to me that the earlier one gets MPE the better, especially when it comes to getting tribute or alliances. Early in the game, just one extra 100g tribute is very valuable. And if it is very, very early, the HG city might not yet be size three anyway.

Good luck!!

Monk

	26-08-2004 13:11									#28
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I went for HG & a robust Monarchy first - but what do I know? I doubt that I am a real competitor this time round ...

Stu

	26-08-2004 15:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I I doubt that I am a real competitor this time round ... Stu

Anyone doubts when solo starts playing

He builds the Gardens before Marco, yet he builds Marco sooner than I do

	26-08-2004 17:06									#30
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solo

IMO it would be very interesting if you playtest along with the ideas you have in mind.

Early conquerors usually start fighting with ellies/vet ellies and/or crusaders/vet crusaders. Horsemen at work, guided by a master, would certainly be the greatest show on earth ... at the moment