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Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Back up from my nap, and having thought about it some more, here's what I think:

Flubber and I may differ on the timetable, but our goals (and by and large, our methodologies) are the same.

Government auctions of land to individuals (either AS individuals, or in the name of companies) seems to be the way to go, as far as doling out what land there is. (the other way would be a good old fashioned "race" similar to those done in the american west when land grants were given out....could be fun too...

Until the island can be properly surveyed, however, and those plots of land to be auctioned or given by some other means can be properly identified, there must be some brief period of banning together for our mutual survival (that is to say, if we have all come here to make a democratic free market society work, then on day one, we can't have people drifting off and beginning to build houses on land that will later be auctioned off....thus, there is some immediate need for a certain amount of pull-togetherness until at least the basics have been done (surveying the island).

As to the fresh water supply...native islanders have dealt with the problem in some form or fashion, and so shall we...

-=Vel=-

PS to the reds: No....that's not "communist" - nothing wrong with taking an organized approach. Time permitting, we could do the survey and such before landing day, and on day one, could duly start parcing out the land, but I'm assuming with the chaos of the revolution and such, we'll not have that luxury.
-V.

Last edited by Velociryx on 24-08-2004 at 23:31

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
** obviously the government would have to have laws prohibiting the cutting of banana trees and laws regarding basic sanitation-- you know don't sh** where you live

There is much to work out


Yes. There is much to work out. You will have trouble working out this sort of thing with the libertarian. Hmmmm.... Vel is the Big Kahuna, but they have the weapons.

{ficticious character on}
I will be watching with delite.
{ficticious character off}

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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have we left Kiditopia yet? or are we still in the planning stages incountry?

Flubber is offline Flubber
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes. There is much to work out. You will have trouble working out this sort of thing with the libertarian.


In discussions, our libertarian seemed very practical. beisdes he will probably decide to take one of the smaller islands as his personal law-free zone

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber


In discussions, our libertarian seemed very practical. beisdes he will probably decide to take one of the smaller islands as his personal law-free zone



You better talk to THEM about taking the SMALLER island.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Still planning, LoA....I'm betting that will occupy the greater portion of the thread, because the plan's gotta be rock solid before we implement. With such a small area, and so small a population, we can't afford mistakes, so we gotta play conservatively, and we gotta play cautious (to the worst case scenario).

-=Vel=-

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Clarification: Vel is one of two Kahuna nominees...neither of which has been seconded.



-=Vel=-

EDIT: Further, Vel was nominated BY "The Libertarian" Next question?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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At this point you guys have to be wishing it was the Left trying to create a new society. I'm sure we would do far better than this though.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Are you kidding? I hadn't planned on doing this, but I'm having a whale of a time....'sides, we've already got a working model to look at, so it should be along the same principle as "paint by numbers"
-=Vel=-

EDIT: And based on what we've seen so far of Kidatopia, I wouldn't bet on that last part....

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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ok ill smuggle out whatever small tools, shovels, hammers, nails rulers, etc (wont be that many cuz we live in a poor country where i cant get what i need). im sure that we can use coral to make sharp edges, etc. and we could prolly do that black market gig also, sounds promising. it would be ultra expensive though, unless he deicded to do it out of the generosity of his heart.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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LoA - good plan...as to the black market...I'm betting we could convince the leaders OF those markets to cut us some fairly attractive deals, on the thinking that once we're up and running, the level of affluence on the island will be significantly higher than in war-torn Kidatopia, and we'll begin demanding an increasing amount of their products for sale.

And, since Kid was kind enough to not limit us in the *amount* of stuff we can bring, then Flub's plan was right on target with the boat and towing barge, so, tools notwithstanding, we can bring considerable resources together.

For my part, upon sale of the house here and liquidating the assets, I'll book passage on a cargo vessel heading our way, and stow the following supplies on-board: (list is a draft only, and will be modified as I think of additional things to add)


* Three of those Windmills brought to my attention earlier (3000 watts each)
* 2 Short Wave Radios
* 18 Wireless Radios for inter-island communication
* 4 large spools of copper wire
* 1 large spool of cat-5 cable and connectors
* (so far) approximately 20 disassembled geodesic domes with low wattage lighting and photovoltaic outer skins (to provide power for interior low-wattage lighting)
* Seed packs (of a type and configuration yet to be determined)
* Four watertight trunks and one thousand notebooks/three thousand pens
* 500 assorted needles
* 3000' of twine
* 600' of rope
* 1 Case each of nails, nuts, bolts, and screws (assorted sizes)
* CD-ROM's with scanned copies of as many books as I can fit (~200 titles is the target, texts on carpentry, electronics, medicine, agriculture, etc...no novels, just knowledge we may need)
* One laptop computer, and 4 spare batteries (3.5 hour life)

(more to be added later, but that is the bulk of the big stuff)

En route, I shall contact Tubes on the inside, to see if I can arrange payment for contraband tools and such to be deliverd to the island, attempting to time their arrival with, or only slightly later than my arrival, so work can begin immediately on assembling the windmills and get the juice up and running. Will also try to get a lathe and basic woodworking supplies, along with the basic components needed for a bare-bones machine shop up and running.

-=Vel=-
(more meds, and then back to bed... )

Agathon is offline Agathon
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I've always been in favour of exiling all the lunatics to a remote island.


Anyone want to take bets that this one ends up like Easter Island?

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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As soon as the casino is up and running, you're cordially invited to join us, Ag!

We'll take some of the People's Wealth and put it to good use...

-=Vel=-

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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  Old Post 25-08-2004 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx

Government auctions of land to individuals (either AS individuals, or in the name of companies) seems to be the way to go, as far as doling out what land there is. (the other way would be a good old fashioned "race" similar to those done in the american west when land grants were given out....could be fun too...

Until the island can be properly surveyed, however, and those plots of land to be auctioned or given by some other means can be properly identified, there must be some brief period of banning together for our mutual survival (that is to say, if we have all come here to make a democratic free market society work, then on day one, we can't have people drifting off and beginning to build houses on land that will later be auctioned off....thus, there is some immediate need for a certain amount of pull-togetherness until at least the basics have been done (surveying the island).

As to the fresh water supply...native islanders have dealt with the problem in some form or fashion, and so shall we...


So there's Natives living there, and you're going to divy up and auction off all their land?

'Liberty' island.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Based on some of the construction I've seen in St. Augustine, I believe we can use crushed seashells and sand to create a kind of "concrete" by the way, which can be used to create more impressive buildings than our first and 2nd gen buildings (which would be good for the Casino, hotel, and other buildings).

-=Vel=-

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Ludd, no. Flubber's initial post to that effect was that the island we're fleeing to is deserted.

No local inhabitants.

-=Vel=-

Agathon is offline Agathon
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quote:
As soon as the casino is up and running, you're cordially invited to join us, Ag!


An island taken over by foreigners that becomes a gambler's and whoremonger's paradise? Sounds familiar.

I'll come on my yacht: it's called the "Granma". I'll even bring friends.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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If you will be dealing with fresh water the same way as the native islanders have (like you said), I guess you will be joining them in non-existence soon enough.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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It's a S. Pacific island...of course it's ideal as a tourist stopover. 'sides that, once we're set up, you'll be chomping at the bit for a break from Kidatopia...

-=Vel=-

EDIT to Ludd: Islanders are dealing with the issue right now....we simply gotta learn how they are, and emulate the ones that are doing it with success. Plus, during the rainy season, we can easily set up cisterns to collect rainwater, and use simple rock and sand filtration systems. Depending on the time of year we arrive, we may even be able to get that done before the first rainy season we're there.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Why are you guys talking all this talk anyway?

You need to test your ideas in a simulation.

Why don't you start up a game of "Tropico" to test out your theories. I'll bet that within five years, with your program, you'll have a crime ridden island with daily guerilla attacks.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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yeah you're right, i had forgotten about that. those islanders were pretty smart. theres one problem tho

quote:
For my part, upon sale of the house here and liquidating the assets,


you cant sell the house and you have no assets cuz its all commie.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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NB: The secret to success is to discover which citizens disagree with you, and send your soldiers out to machine gun them in the street.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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LoA: I'll sell before the revolution starts...like Flubber's plan...and barring that, my truck's paid for, and I can pull my money out of the bank to gather resources.

Ag, don't have a copy of tropico, but if it's a deep enough sim, that's not a bad idea...

-=Vel=-

EDIT: minus the part about the machine guns...

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
NB: The secret to success is to discover which citizens disagree with you, and send your soldiers out to machine gun them in the street.


But unfortunetly you can never eliminate all opposition this way. Even if you go through great lengths to keep the murders/jailings secret, or to 're-educate' your opponents instead, someone will always switch to an ideal if there are no members of it left.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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im bringing.

water
food
sleepingbag
money stolen from the party
toothpaste, toothbrush
sunscreen
small shovel
tarp
hemp cord
brushhook
machete
matches
copy of US constitution
econ books
dog
dogfood

a true refugee

if whaleboy hadnt left i bet this would be a good project for him to keep him healthy.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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The Great Escape, Day Two


From the diary of Kahuna Nominee Velociryx:

Someone, I don't remember who, and I suppose it does not matter, brought six cases of whiskey to the island, and last night, a wild party ensued. Celebration for escaping the Kidatopia, I suppose, and I joined in that celebration.

Much work to be done, but for tonight, at least, a celebration.

Of course, all that drinking led to the island's first problem, and that would involve the bladder and bowels. For the time being, two small stands of trees got hurriedly designated as the "powder rooms," however, it underscores one problem that needs to get fixed up post-haste. Can't have everybody running amok on the island p*ssing all over everything.

Fortunately, the Geodesics have compost toilets built into them....all we gotta do is get a couple of them built tomorrow, and that problem should be solved.

No crime, by the way, and no incidents of violence.

I think that's for a few reasons though. One is fear. The unknown. Everybody's too scared (me included) at this point to do anything that will put the survival of the group at risk, and nobody wants to be an outcast among outcasts, so even while drinking, everybody was on good behavior.

Another is relief. Arse-busting work or no, it's better here than it is...out there.

And yet another is excitement. We have a shot here, if we can all keep our wits about us, and that's a good thing.

That's a very good thing.

***


Dawn broke with Kidicious Prime rousting us up from our stupor over the bullhorn.

More taunts and jeers from he and his officers sitting just offshore, but that's to be expected. They don't like what we represent, and are hovering just offshore to see if we fail. I would expect no less, and I intend to disappoint them.

On to business then.

I gathered up some of the island in the morning hours, and assisted them in the construction of one of the geodesic dome structures. This will be used as the base headquarters/Quartermaster's hut for the time being. Now that they know HOW to assemble one, I left them to it, and a group, led by Mara, one of the lovely Gypsy Harem, set about selecting sites for setting up the rest. Advantage - the compost toilet is now in operation, and all afternoon, there was a line to use it....go figure.

Having done that, I turned my attention to the matter of a shovel.

The tools that were supposed to arrive with me have not shown yet. I do not know if this is because the boat was intercepted and sunk en route, or if they maybe just decided not to risk it.

Nonetheless, I need a shovel, and that's the next order of business.

Ludd, our chief Agro specialist, took over the Quartermaster's hut and straightaway began organising and separating our seeds, and drafted a few volunteers to haul our equipment inside...a thankless task that will, by itself, take the better part of the day.

Q took stock of our computer supplies, and began setting the three laptops up in the Quartermaster's tent, and cataloging what cd's we have with us.

Someone had the foresight to bring along a portable stereo and some music, so we had tunes to jam to while we worked, and it was a happy sound that accompanied all the sweating and grunting going on.

Flubber spent the day with a group of volunteers showing them the ropes of the fishing trade, and from what I understand, we'll have meat tonight. Not sure how much, but anything's better than what we got now.

The whole place is just bursting with activity today though, and that is a promising sign.

LoA caught up with me about two thirds into the construction of the first Geodesic, and was grinning ear to ear as he displayed a socket set and other assorted contraband tools. That wily sucker pulled it off....excellent! He was anxious to see if he could put one of the windmills together, and I showed him the way...that should keep him and his volunteer staff busy for a while.

In the meantime, DF spent the morning hours on the horn, trying to figure out where the rest of our supplies were. Can't seem to raise Tubes, and we're all worried about him....things are scary over in Kidatopia right now....

And solo caught up with me a bit later in the afternoon with a half dozen homemade spears, so he and I set out on a little hunting expedition.

Sans tools, I needed a shovel, and thought I knew a way we could get one.

Catching a tortoise on land was the easy part. It seems they enjoy coming up to the beach and sunning themselves.

Killing one wasn't all that hard either, but man are those guys HEAVY!

After we did one in with our spears, it took us the better part of three hours to lug him back to the camp, where we got some assitance scooping all the meat out for later.

The main thing I was after was the shell.

That, and a long stick with a notch cut in it would at least allow me to scoop sand in an organized fashion until we could get a real shovel.

Once we got the shell off, actually making the shovel only took about two hours, but sheesh...what an ordeal. By the time I finally had some semblence of a working shovel in-hand, it was too late in the afternoon to do much with it, and I was too tired to even think about using it, so I flopped onto the sand to rest.

Flubber and his crew got back less than an hour later, and reported the day's catch.

There's meat enough for all tonight.

Go team!

No politicking got done, however...so we still don't have seconds for either of our nominees, nor have a set timetable on when the election will actually occur, though I suspect that it'll be not long after we get seconds for the nominees and see if any additional folks will get nominated.

Still, I'd call it a solid day's progress.

Six Geodesics assembled means not much privacy, but everybody can sleep inside. Two of the huts were up early enough in the day that the outer skin picked up sufficient charge that we got lights on, the supplies are organized, and one windmill is assembled, but not yet running. Library is networked in its corner of the Quartermaster's hut, and nobody got hurt today, so Mrs. Flubber had an easy first day on the job. Thankfully.

Only two small freshwater streams on the island, by the way. Enough to get us by for the immediacy if we're careful, but tomorow, I'll get Q to have a look-see in our library and see what he can come up with in terms of finding a way to get the salt OUT of the seawater. Maybe we can drink that. If not...it'll quickly become a case of "water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink" Fortunately, we got lots of empty whisky bottles to store water in from the streams, so we don't have to keep making trips.

Mini-Flub provided the evening's entertainment, and shortly after dinner, everybody began peeling off to various Geodesics to catch a few winks. DF made sure he wound up in the hut with the Gypsy Harem gals...can't say I blame him there.

As for me....I think it'll be a night out under the stars, and rest for these weary eyes.

Tomorrow, Solo's got plans to head out and start surveying the island. Would have dearly loved to gotten that accomplished before we landed, but...too much chaos and not enough time...so here we are.

We'll get there though....

We'll get there.

-=Vel=-

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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whats a geodesic? is it like a prefab hut or something?

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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its like a steel igloo - how did we manage that?

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OK - so we'll test out the Libertarian island using "Tropico".

I take on the character of a self made man, who has come to power on the island. Free markets shall reign!!

There will be no state subsidies and only economically solvent buildings (industries, rental apartments) will be built. All priority will be given to improving the economy and expanding industry to enable me to issue the "tax cut" edict, since it is evil for the state to leech off of citizens. That means, no churches or hospitals, since people should be responsible for their own healthcare. It also means no edicts prohibiting alcohol or contraception.

Here is Tropico at Year Zero of the capitalist revolution (1950). Not much to look at, but those shacks are inhabited by people who thirst for economic and social liberty. The economy is dominated by corn farmers. I shall build more profitable industries.

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