30-08-2004 10:39									#61
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Damn, I must have missed it. I saw Grogs post on nukes which was kinda funny.

PS- This entire discussion assumes that the Mongols, in fact, existed. But of course, in reality, they did not.

	30-08-2004 10:39									#62
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Was Cyrus the Great up there? My World History professor liked him.

	30-08-2004 10:43									#63
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Bill Gates should be up there.

	30-08-2004 10:43									#64
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider All Alexander did was conquer a bunch of lightweight scrubs, he couldn't even beat the Indians. Hell, the British beat the Indians.

Wow! Myth upon myth.

One could hardly call the Persian empire, the superpower of it's age, lightweight.

Darius II was a poor leader but the empire threw everything it had at Alexander and he still came out trumps in battle after battle, all of them win or die encounters in which the Macedonians were seriously outnumbered and in some cases with their supply lines cut.

Several of the battles ranks among the greatest examples of generalship of all time.

As for the Indians, again, Alexander won every battle and then fought a brilliant fighting withdrawal to the sea after his battle weary troops refused to fight on into India. Then he built a fleet of ships in Lahore and sailed back to Persia.

	30-08-2004 10:55									#65
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Bah, the Persians were only a middling power at best, and even they were past their prime. All Alexander did was conquer a few thousand miles of bankrupt estate.

Sure, they say he never lost a battle, but I'm sure there were a couple losses here and there that they never let into the history books.

The only thing I will give Alexander credit for is his ship-building abilities.

	30-08-2004 11:07									#66
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Nah.

They held off the Romans for century after century years later

One of the reasons the Roman empire fell was because they kept wasting resources on trying to beat Persia, but they could never quite get them

	30-08-2004 11:29									#67
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quote: All Alexander did was conquer a bunch of lightweight scrubs, he couldn't even beat the Indians. Hell, the British beat the Indians.

The Mongols, of course, never existed, but the vile lies told about their supposed "empire" never once mention India as one of the conquered.

	30-08-2004 11:44									#68
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Bah, the Persians were only a middling power at best, and even they were past their prime. All Alexander did was conquer a few thousand miles of bankrupt estate. Sure, they say he never lost a battle, but I'm sure there were a couple losses here and there that they never let into the history books. The only thing I will give Alexander credit for is his ship-building abilities.

Such ignorance of ancient history defies correction

	30-08-2004 13:07									#69
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I'd say the Indian teacher Chanakya/Kautilya was the greatest . And he never once directly held any throne or post of power .

Wikipedia Entry

Fantastically powerful considering the way he held the reins of power .

Wikipedia quotes

He dethroned the most powerful dynasty of the time , raised a commoner to the status of undisputed King of united India , built an empire which itself survived in some form or the other for a thousand years , and whose cultural influence is felt till today .

For an idea of his achievements , think of someone like Bismarck , but capable of uniting the whole of Europe purely through the power of his mind , while never once holding any throne himself . The empire he built eventually drove out Alexander's Greek forces , then under the command of Selucus Nicator .

Wikipedia external link

	30-08-2004 13:09									#70
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Easy choice from the way I look at it...Alexander. The weakest on the list would be close between Napolean and Atilla

Yes. Clearly I am the pwningest conqueror ever.

	30-08-2004 13:10									#71
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm I'd say the Indian teacher Chanakya/Kautilya was the greatest . And he never once directly held any throne or post of power . Wikipedia Entry Fantastically powerful considering the way he held the reins of power . Wikipedia quotes He dethroned the most powerful dynasty of the time , raised a commoner to the status of undisputed King of united India , built an empire which itself survived in some form or the other for a thousand years , and whose cultural influence is felt till today . For an idea of his achievements , think of someone like Bismarck , but capable of uniting the whole of Europe purely through the power of his mind , while never once holding any throne himself . The empire he built eventually drove out Alexander's Greek forces , then under the command of Selucus Nicator . Wikipedia external link

Not so much of a conqueror though, was he?

	30-08-2004 13:22									#72
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I'd say he was , in a way . He united /conquered states whose military might far exceeded his protege's own . That's what I define conquest .

In terms of sheet territory , there are better ones out there . But thier empires did not last a thousand years after they left . Even seven to eight hundred years after his death , the empire he set up was extremely powerful .

As an example - an Arabic/Islamic army invaded seven centuries after hsi death . Not a single survivor lived to tell the tale . There were no Arabic attacks for a hundred years after that .

	30-08-2004 13:35									#73
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Khan? You do mean Amir Khan do you not?

I'd say Alexander the Great. While Khan took over a huge territory, we have to think about what kind of territory. overall, Alexander the Greats army fought their way through and over the core of human civilisation at the time. Khan's horders roamed over more open and less organised areas, for the most part.

	30-08-2004 13:50									#74
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I think that Napoleon is really overlooked on this one. He's certainly in the middle of the pack, since he's facing potent, and organized rivals.

But overall, I think that Alexander is the best, if we're looking at the amount of force he had against his enemies ( and like it, or not, the Persians whooped ass, and did it real bad )

	30-08-2004 14:12									#75
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quote: Plus Temujin had the single greatest biological impact on the human race of any single person ever, with 16 million living men carrying his Y-chromosome.

Then Douglas Adams was right. He makes a joke about the man who bulldozes Arthur Dent's house being a descendent of Ghenghis Khan. If those scientists are right, it is completely plausible.

	30-08-2004 14:14									#76
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I think American culture would be the real winner here. Scratch that, Americna culture exported via Corporations.
Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. etc.

my proof the new Rammstein music video
www.rammstein.com

	30-08-2004 14:35									#77
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Wow...he really was the father of the Mongols...

	30-08-2004 14:46									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Then Douglas Adams was right. He makes a joke about the man who bulldozes Arthur Dent's house being a descendent of Ghenghis Khan. If those scientists are right, it is completely plausible.

It depends on which book you read. I recall a particular short story in The Salmon of Peace.

	30-08-2004 16:39									#79
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Genghis Khan was obviously the greatest.

http://home.ca.inter.net/~giskhan/

PWND!!1!

	30-08-2004 16:46									#80
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I'm going to have to say Minamoto Yoshitsune, since he conquered Japan before being run out of the country by his brother and becoming Genghis Khan.

	30-08-2004 17:47									#81
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Belasarius. reconquered most of the Western Roman empire witn the foundering Byzantine state as his "support."

Not the best, but deserves to be up there.

I think alot of the modern Generals would qualify because taking over even one reletively small advanced modern nation, say France, is a massive undertaking. Of course it is so big there is no "one" general that can claim full credit.

	30-08-2004 17:52									#82
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Well, Timur the Lame, or Tamerlane or whatever we decide to call him should be up there but maybe people just think of him as a Mongol second wind.

	30-08-2004 17:57									#83
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Some of the Muslum generals (Muhammed did little personally) were quite amazing. Unfortunetly their gaisn usually collaped within a decade. But to their credit, the muslims conquored half the known world five times. I guess they like the replayability of their world conquest game.

	30-08-2004 17:57									#84
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Napoleon III.

	30-08-2004 20:28									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Did I mention Alexander conquered the known world with only 50,000 troops?

How big do you think the Mongol horde was?

quote: By this time, the Mongol army was exhausted by ten years of continuous campaigning against Western Xia and Jin. Therefore, Genghis sent only two tumen under a brilliant young general, Jebe, against Kuchlug. An internal revolt was incited by Mongol agents; then Jebe overran the country. Kuchlug's forces were defeated west of Kashgar; he was captured and executed, and Kara-Khiatn was annexed. By 1218 the Mongol state extended as far west as Lake Balkhash and adjoined Khwarizm, a Muslim state that reached to the Caspian Sea in the west and to the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea in the south.

That's 20,000 men. Alexander isn't so great, afterall.

	30-08-2004 20:31									#86
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Voted for the Hun, just because he destroyed the Roman empire.

Spec.

	30-08-2004 20:55									#87
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Alexander, all the way.

He woulda pwned that punkazz Mongol boy....

-=Vel=-

	30-08-2004 20:56									#88
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Conan.

	30-08-2004 21:11									#89
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It's definitely between Khan and Alex.

Both took on immensely powerful (though perhaps clumsy) opponents (Persia & China). China may not have been unified, but then again Persia wasn't really a fully-integrated entity either. If memory serves, the first battle Alex fought against the Persians was against just a local Satrap's army (still larger than his, and he crushed it). After he won that, he had the full attention of the empire (not that it helped).

I'll go with Alexander, in part because I am more familiar with his exploits, and in part because it seems that Khan may have done more delegation (to other generals... Subatoi?), whereas Alex was always right there in the thick of things.

-Arrian

p.s. Napolean should get some extra credit given the equal technology and relative battle prowess of his many opponents. He still lost, twice, though.

	30-08-2004 21:15									#90
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quote: That's 20,000 men. Alexander isn't so great, afterall.

weren't they purely horsemen, though?