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Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 02:52
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quote:
If the demos can screw up a political campaign, which is much more simple that running the country, so badly, what the hell do you think will happen if they get into office? Recall how much of whitehouse staff appointments are drwn from compaign staff.


That might be convincing if I didn't already think that the Bushies had done more damage in the last 4 yrs than I previously thought possible.

quote:
Tell that to Michael Moore!


**** Michael Moore and all like him, on both sides.

-Arrian

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 02:54
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The Dems are still desparately trying to pin SOMETHING on Bush. They are becoming irrational, now, as the election draws near and all their flaming arrows have missed the mark. What they did here can only be called insane.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 05:05
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Killian's secretary now says the memo's are fake, are sloppy and include Army terms not used by the Air Force.

http://www.drudgereport.com/bushtang.htm

Still, she says the information in the memo's is consistent with memo's she did type.

Which means getting ahold of Killian's files remains important.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 05:10
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And, BTW, a Kitty Spacecadet appeared on Chris Matthews today. She alleges that Bush did not take the TANG phyiscal because he was using coke. She also discovered a prostitute that may have had something to do with Bush. She also said that the First Lady was a pot smoker and dealer at SMU.

Matthews asked her if she had anybody that was willing to step forward to corroborate any of her allegations? She said no. Then, she added,

"All this shows is just how powerful the Bush family is."

Last edited by Ned on 15-09-2004 at 10:20

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 05:28 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The Dems are still desparately trying to pin SOMETHING on Bush. They are becoming irrational, now, as the election draws near and all their flaming arrows have missed the mark. What they did here can only be called insane.


They are now quoting Michael Moore and using clips from Fahrenhate 9/11 (including his famous Mooreisms [lies]).

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
This "issue" is such a ****ing waste of time. **** the ****ing bullshit political process we have in this country. What actually matters is the incumbent President's record of leadership during his term, and the challenger's proposed course of action. But instead of really talking about all that, like sheep, we find ourselves staring at documents (or forged documents) from decades ago regarding national guard service?? What in the name of the Holy Cowbell is going on here?!?!

****!

-Arrian


The issue at hand is not so much the impact one way or another on the political process as much as it is a clear indictment of either the complete slipshod approach the mainstram media takes or more likely the extreme bias thereof.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:10 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
"All this shows is just how powerful the Bush family is."


We really need to include libel and slander laws to include politicians if allegations of crimes are being made.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I have to admit, I'm pretty pissed about this. CBS's unprofessionalism made me look like a fool. They were so ready to jump on a scandal before being scooped they didn't make a thorough check first. They have the journalistic integrity of FOXNews.

FrantzX is offline FrantzX
Warlord

May 1999
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:31
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Suffering from ads?

Actually, FOX has yet to make a mistake of this caliber.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Vince Foster's suicide?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:04
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This just gets better and better and better...

http://www.democrats.org/fortunateson/index.html

NBC is demanding this ad be pulled, and it is expected CBS will, as well.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:14 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Why is NBC demanding anything?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
CBS's unprofessionalism made me look like a fool.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We really need to include libel and slander laws to include politicians if allegations of crimes are being made.


Since Kitty Spacecadet has not named is single source, Bush should simply ignore this book as a complete trash, the sick fantasy of a very sick woman.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why is NBC demanding anything?


Apparently the ad also uses footage from a Meet The Press interview of Bush from earlier this year. NBC isn't pleased that they weren't contacted about this.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:51
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CBS didn't make you look like a fool, only themselves.

All you did was take a story from a reputable news source and ran with it. We all do that.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:54
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Claiming pwnage where none existed made him look foolish.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:55 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Apparently the ad also uses footage from a Meet The Press interview of Bush from earlier this year.


Okay, but wouldn't it be protected under fair use?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 10:56
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That's something the lawyers are hashing out right now, I believe.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 11:32 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I have to admit, I'm pretty pissed about this. CBS's unprofessionalism made me look like a fool. They were so ready to jump on a scandal before being scooped they didn't make a thorough check first. They have the journalistic integrity of FOXNews.


They don't have journalistic integrity, Chegitz. And here, take a nice hug... we sometimes get made look like fools, some more then others (as in myself when I do something stupid.. which happens more then sometimes.. but hey... move on).

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Okay, but wouldn't it be protected under fair use?


Maybe, but I think the networks main concern is the salvaging of whatever remaining credibility they have. If they permit the Kerry campaign to use their footage in campaign ads, they will be "perceived" to have joined the Kerry campaign.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 11:59
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ABC says CBS's own experts warned Rather. Suffering from ads?

Casting Further Doubt
Document Analysts: CBS News Ignored Concerns About Disputed Bush Military Records
By Brian Ross
ABCNEWS.com

Sept. 14, 2004— Two of the document experts hired by CBS News say the network ignored concerns they raised prior to the broadcast of a report citing documents that questioned George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War.

The authenticity of the documents in the report by CBS News' 60 Minutes II has been widely questioned. The documents were allegedly written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

Emily Will, a veteran document examiner from North Carolina, told ABC News she saw problems right away with the one document CBS hired her to check the weekend before the broadcast.

"I found five significant differences in the questioned handwriting, and I found problems with the printing itself as to whether it could have been produced by a typewriter," she said.

Will says she sent the CBS producer an e-mail message about her concerns and strongly urged the network the night before the broadcast not to use the documents.

"I told them that all the questions I was asking them on Tuesday night, they were going to be asked by hundreds of other document examiners on Thursday if they ran that story," Will said.

But the documents became a key part of the 60 Minutes II broadcast questioning President Bush's National Guard service in 1972. CBS made no mention that any expert disputed the authenticity.

"I did not feel that they wanted to investigate it very deeply," Will told ABC News.

‘I Did Not Authenticate Anything’

A second document examiner hired by CBS News, Linda James of Plano, Texas, also told ABC News she had concerns about the documents and could not authenticate them. She said she expressed her concerns to CBS before the 60 Minutes II broadcast.

"I did not authenticate anything and I don't want it to be misunderstood that I did," James said. "And that's why I have come forth to talk about it because I don't want anybody to think I did authenticate these documents."

A third examiner hired by CBS for its story, Marcel Matley, appeared on CBS Evening News last Friday and was described as saying the document was real.

According to The Washington Post, Matley said he examined only the signature attributed to Killian and made no attempt to authenticate the documents themselves.

At the heart of the dispute is whether any typewriter existed in 1972 that could have produced the documents, with their distinct type style, even spacing, and the tiny raised "th" known as superscript.

Two experts told ABC News today there was no such machine, not even the IBM Selectric Composer, the most advanced typewriter available in 1972.

"This machine is not the culprit for these documents," said software engineer Gerry Kaplan.

Other new questions were raised today by National Guard officials who told ABC News that some of the language and abbreviations in the documents were not in use at the time.

CBS Stands by Its Report

CBS News says it still believes the documents are authentic.

"CBS News did not rely on either Emily Will or Linda James for a final assessment of the documents regarding George Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard. Ms. Will and Ms. James were among a group of experts we consulted to assess one of the four documents used in the report and they did not render definitive judgment on that document. Ultimately, they played a peripheral role and deferred to another expert who examined all four of the documents used," the network said in a statement.

"Most importantly, the content of the documents was backed up by our reporting and our sources who knew the thoughts and behavior of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian at the time," the statement said.

Killian's former secretary, Marian Carr Knox, told ABC News she believes the documents are fake, but that they do reflect some of what her former boss thought of then-Lt. George W. Bush.

"He did have complaints about Bush. Bush missed his physical and went off to Alabama with none of the paperwork, I remember Killian talking about that," Knox said. "But it wasn't in memo file."

http://apolyton.net/forums/newthrea...ead&forumid=147

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 12:01
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How long can CBS take the heat?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 12:05
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Great stuff, but I think it would have been fine in the other thread.

Edit: I see the mods do listen from time to time...

Last edited by The Mad Monk on 15-09-2004 at 21:33

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 12:14
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I think Rather is a Republican hating leftie who was used in the Bubba way by Bush Sr. and who never forgot.

What do you think?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 12:16 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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This should be consolidated with the other thread. But a great update nonetheless. Rather really messed up... Rather isn't the only one at fault, CBS producers are too. CBS is at fault. Isn't it a crime to sign somebody else's name to false documents? More like a felony with jail time added on it?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Great stuff, but I think it would have been fine in the other thread.


That was wandering a bit.

I think the Washington Post ran a good analysis today as well, concluding that the memo's were forged.

I wonder how Rather and crew can continue to say these memo's are authentic when noone else does. What kind of "proof" do they need before they admit to the obvious?

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 13:47
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I have to admit, I'm pretty pissed about this. CBS's unprofessionalism made me look like a fool. They were so ready to jump on a scandal before being scooped they didn't make a thorough check first. They have the journalistic integrity of FOXNews.


On the contrary. Though it was probably embarrassing, you've shown yourself to be a man of integrity here. Many if not all of us could just as easily be fooled by a source that we had faith in. Many of us quote or paraphrase news stories and articles, and I don't recall many people here launching their own investigations into whether news stories are true or not beyond what they are fed by other media etc.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 14:21
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quote:

We do appreciate the humorous bid by karl_rowe of $14,999 but had to cancel the bid so that others could make legitimate bids.


Karl_rowe?

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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time: 23:23
  Old Post 15-09-2004 18:02 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Ned... I merged your new thread on the same old topic into the current thread.

 
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