13-09-2004 04:45									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos If I had a penny every time a poytubbie advocated invading NK before Iraq I would be rich.

This doesn't mean they want a NK/US war. It does mean they want the US/Iraq war to be postponed forever

	13-09-2004 05:35									#92
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A 50 kiloton blast would be a fair size for a first nuke. But again, if it were a test NK would be talking about it.

This most certainly was NOT a bomb in the megaton range, since at that size, the fireball of the very explosion is over a mile in diameter.

	13-09-2004 05:46									#93
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We've clearly demonstrated that Kim Jong-Il shows as little respect for human rights as Saddam, and that he's closer to being a threat to us than Saddam.

Then why the hell is going after him some great impossible?

China? Does China like having an unstable nuclear crackpot at their border?

	13-09-2004 05:47									#94
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell We've clearly demonstrated that Kim Jong-Il shows as little respect for human rights as Saddam, and that he's closer to being a threat to us than Saddam. Then why the hell is going after him some great impossible?

Because he has nukes?

	13-09-2004 07:23									#95
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Just another train yard accident.

That or some boy scouts getting over zealous.

	13-09-2004 07:45									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Because he has nukes?

No. Because China has them.

	13-09-2004 07:55									#97
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I would imagine that if this was a compelety unexpected accidental explosion, given its size, there will be significant military personal casualties. Probobly destroyed the whole base.

	13-09-2004 07:58									#98
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No. Because China has them.

I would think China is increasingly annoyed at its client State. I would expect China not to nuke anybody in case of a conventional war in NK, provided it milked something out of it.

Don't forget that NK is a threat by itself. It has a huge artillery amassed in range of Seoul, and the South Koreans fear that NK could level Seoul on Kim's whim. Also, Japan fears a NKian nuke.

As much as I dislike the current American administration, I think it considers the levelling of Seoul the nuking of Tokyo a too high price to pay. This is a common "mad dog" strategy: NK strives to be as dangerous as possible, to be sure nobody would bother toppling Kim's regime.

	13-09-2004 08:02									#99
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You have a point about Japan and SK, but the reason the US will never do anything about NK, even should Japan and SK urge them to, is China.

The Chinese are the only people in a position to solve the problem. It would be good if they realised that and the rest of the world encouraged them to do so (solve the problem).

	13-09-2004 08:03									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Don't forget that NK is a threat by itself. It has a huge artillery amassed in range of Seoul, and the South Koreans fear that NK could level Seoul on Kim's whim. Also, Japan fears a NKian nuke.

The antiquated artillery that DPRK deploys would be completely nutralized within hours. The establishment of Air Force "kill zones" and Paladin counterfire would devastate this facit of the DPRK military.

The real danger lies in the possibility of a nuke strike. This possibility, while relatively remote now, will only grow.

	13-09-2004 09:04									#101
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China needs North Korea. It's like the average looking girl who has an ugly friend to make her look better.

	13-09-2004 09:54									#102
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO The antiquated artillery that DPRK deploys would be completely neutralized within hours. The establishment of Air Force "kill zones" and Paladin counterfire would devastate this facit of the DPRK military. The real danger lies in the possibility of a nuke strike. This possibility, while relatively remote now, will only grow.

the city of seoul will be gone in that time frame. Not only are conventional explosives in the shells, but there are also chemical weapons as well.

	13-09-2004 09:54									#103
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You have a point about Japan and SK, but the reason the US will never do anything about NK, even should Japan and SK urge them to, is China. The Chinese are the only people in a position to solve the problem. It would be good if they realised that and the rest of the world encouraged them to do so (solve the problem).

Why does China have a problem?

	13-09-2004 09:55									#104
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So has anybody actually found out what happened?

	13-09-2004 10:02									#105
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi China needs North Korea. It's like the average looking girl who has an ugly friend to make her look better.

	13-09-2004 10:34									#106
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi China needs North Korea. It's like the average looking girl who has an ugly friend to make her look better.

Clearly your analogy is deeply flawed

Chinese women

	13-09-2004 10:39									#107
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I should take some pictures

	13-09-2004 11:03									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos If I had a penny every time a poytubbie advocated invading NK before Iraq I would be rich.

* Lonestar glances at Location.

Shouldn't you be on leave or something?

	13-09-2004 11:04									#109
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi I should take some pictures

Perhaps I should drive around Mormon country and take some pictures as well.

To quote Jaguar, pwnd.

	13-09-2004 15:02									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Perhaps I should drive around Mormon country and take some pictures as well. To quote Jaguar, pwnd.

I concede! I concede!

	13-09-2004 16:42									#111
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DPRK now claiming that the explosion was them "demolishing" a mountain in order to continuw work on a hydroelectric dam project. British ambassador has requested to visit cite. DPRK has said they will consider request.

	13-09-2004 16:43									#112
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Isnt it easier to work around them

	13-09-2004 16:50									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed nobody i know seriously contemplates an NK/US war... at least, not in regards to regime change in NK...

Dubya.

	13-09-2004 16:52									#114
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell China? Does China like having an unstable nuclear crackpot at their border?

They've gotten used to Russia over the years.

	13-09-2004 17:02									#115
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quote: * Lonestar glances at Location. Shouldn't you be on leave or something?

Just got back, and oh how I hate work.

	13-09-2004 19:24									#116
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quote: DPRK now claiming that the explosion was them "demolishing" a mountain in order to continuw work on a hydroelectric dam project.

That's some hydroelectric project.

	13-09-2004 19:42									#117
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO The antiquated artillery that DPRK deploys would be completely nutralized within hours. The establishment of Air Force "kill zones" and Paladin counterfire would devastate this facit of the DPRK military.

The mountanous terrain makes getting a good bearing difficult, plus the north has underground bunkers into which guns can be brought back in, and very heavy AAA fire would endanger low flying aircraft. That, and in a few hours Seoul, a city of 10 million would see massive damage.

	13-09-2004 20:13									#118
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The mountanous terrain makes getting a good bearing difficult, plus the north has underground bunkers into which guns can be brought back in, and very heavy AAA fire would endanger low flying aircraft. That, and in a few hours Seoul, a city of 10 million would see massive damage.

This type of artillery "hardening" is exactly what Paladin was designed for. While there is no doubt that Seoul would suffer significant damage, the DPRK artillery would be short lived as a massive offensive force. Paladin counterfire is pretty quick and DPRK would not have time to move artillery back into bunkers. Not to mention that B1 and B2 strikes with "bunker buster" bombs would make these not very pleasant places to be. That being said...what a horrible war that would be for all. We can only hope that China will excersise whatever influence they have to keep the genie in the bottle.

	13-09-2004 22:51									#119
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quote: Then why the hell is going after him some great impossible?

the roughly ~20 million people in one of the east asia's, if not the world's largest economic and industrial centers within range of artillery...

quote: The antiquated artillery that DPRK deploys would be completely nutralized within hours. The establishment of Air Force "kill zones" and Paladin counterfire would devastate this facit of the DPRK military. The real danger lies in the possibility of a nuke strike. This possibility, while relatively remote now, will only grow.

while you might have no problems placing someone else's life and someone else's country in as yet somewhat un(battle)proven technologies...
and it's facet.

	13-09-2004 23:00									#120
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO This type of artillery "hardening" is exactly what Paladin was designed for. While there is no doubt that Seoul would suffer significant damage, the DPRK artillery would be short lived as a massive offensive force. Paladin counterfire is pretty quick and DPRK would not have time to move artillery back into bunkers. Not to mention that B1 and B2 strikes with "bunker buster" bombs would make these not very pleasant places to be. That being said...what a horrible war that would be for all. We can only hope that China will excersise whatever influence they have to keep the genie in the bottle.

First of all- I doubt we would have all our paladins in the ROK, and since the NK has over 4500 pieces of artillery and rocket systems, I must seriously question any notion that "within hours" their massive artillery would be out of commission. In fact, I think that thought in the realm of fantasy. as for B2, those are 14 hours away in Missiouri, and go after predetermined targets, not targets of opportunity, and could onyl hit a few, not hundreds. The B1's might be closer, but again would take hours to get into theater and hit their pre-assigned targets. You don;t call B2's and B1's for support.