12-09-2004 09:20									#1
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http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/natio...lear040911.html

quote: Explosions caused mushroom cloud over N. Korea: source Last Updated Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:14:58 EDT SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA - A mushroom-shaped cloud was seen in North Korea last Thursday following a large explosion, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday. INDEPTH: North Korea The explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county produced a crater large enough to be seen by a satellite, said the Yonhap news agency. Kim Hyong Jik is reported to hold a major missile base. The cloud measured 3.5 to 4 kilometres in diameter, an unidentified diplomatic source told Yonhap . Last Thursday was the founding anniversary of North Korea and some officials believe the communist country may have used the day to conduct a nuclear-related test, but there's no indication that is so. South Korea said Sunday it could not yet confirm the reports and a U.S. official said the situation was still unclear. Written by CBC News Online staff

Accident? Test? What?

	12-09-2004 09:23									#2
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OMG we nuked them!!!

	12-09-2004 09:25									#3
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quote: Accident? Test? What?

PR move, probably.

"OUR WORDS ARE BACKED BY NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"

	12-09-2004 09:25									#4
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No one really knows what the hell is going on in there any more, do we?

Either way, the USA has satellites all over the globe. If Kim Jong Il pops open a can of Pringles, we know about it, so I'm sure it's known and we just aren't telling anyone.

	12-09-2004 09:30									#5
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Pretty certain that it's a test. Given the timing.

From earlier today:

quote: WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 - President Bush and his top advisers have received intelligence reports in recent days describing a confusing series of actions by North Korea that some experts believe could indicate the country is preparing to conduct its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon, according to senior officials with access to the intelligence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/i...pagewanted=1&hp

	12-09-2004 09:34									#6
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Above ground test in a crowded country? The Beeb reported the site to be near the Chinese border. I wonder if China will be impressed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3648794.stm

quote: Big blast reported in North Korea A big explosion rocked a northern province of North Korea near the border with China last week, South Korea's Yonhap new agency is reporting. The blast on Thursday was seen from a satellite, Yonhap quoted an unnamed source in Beijing as saying. The cause has yet to be determined, the source said. In April, an explosion at a railway station in North Korea killed more than 150 people - but Pyongyang only admitted the incident three days later. Yonhap quoted a diplomatic source in Seoul as saying a mushroom cloud, with a radius of 3.5-4 kms (2.2-2.5 miles), was spotted in Kimhyungjik county in Yanggang province. But Seoul's top negotiator with North Korea, Unification Minister Chung Dong-young, reportedly played down the possibility that it might have been a nuclear weapons' test. He said South Korea was trying to get confirmation of the explosion and its effects, Yonhap reported. The blast is said to have happened on 9 September, as North Korea marked the 56th anniversary of its founding.

	12-09-2004 09:36									#7
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quote: No one really knows what the hell is going on in there any more, do we?

It's not like that such a test is particularly good news for this gov't, so I'm guessing that they probably aren't in that big a rush to advertise it.

	12-09-2004 09:44									#8
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**** Iraq, we should've gotten NK before it was too late.

EDIT: Although how long have they had this capability? They are just now testing it, but...

	12-09-2004 09:45									#9
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bada boom. big bada boom..

Hmhmhehe chicken multipass!

	12-09-2004 09:46									#10
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I would think it would be difficult to hide the aftereffects of a nuclear blast, particularly an open air detonation.

	12-09-2004 09:49									#11
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Even the Soviets agreed that above ground nuclear tests were to damaging to the enviroment and stopped doing them in the late 1950's. I'm surprised the North Koreans couldn't find a mine shaft or something to put the bomb in before the blew it up.

Since they could see the crater from space it was likely a nuke test and not an accident.

	12-09-2004 09:53									#12
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I wonder, how big a bomb makes a 3.5-4 km diameter mushroom cloud?

	12-09-2004 09:57									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I wonder, how big a bomb makes a 3.5-4 km diameter mushroom cloud?

Depends on how soon after the detonation the picture is taken. I doubt they have hydrogen bomb technology, and I don't think atomic weapons can get very powerful.

	12-09-2004 10:06									#14
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Hmmm... apparantly SK's Unification Minister claims that it's unlikely that this was a nuclear weapons test:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5973734/

	12-09-2004 10:17									#15
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How is SK behavior explained? Is there an overwhelming desire to put unification over safety and well-being? Is the South government in league with the North?

Sorry if I sound like I'm trolling. I ain't. But it just seems ignert to be so careless in approach with Kim.

	12-09-2004 10:22									#16
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The South Korean media doesn't seem to be too worried about it.

This is from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap...last/index.html

"The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire."

Right...

	12-09-2004 10:27									#17
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Found this:

http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/.../technical3.asp

quote: The fireball from a 10-kiloton explosion at ground level would reach a radius of 200 meters, hence would have a diameter of 400 meters or about a quarter of a mile. Everything within this radius would be completely destroyed. In the case of a badly designed or badly implemented bomb that yielded only 1 kiloton, the fireball would have a diameter about 2.5 times smaller, hence about 150 meters. The surface explosion of a 100 kiloton weapon, as conceivably might be stolen from the arsenal of an advanced nuclear-weapon state, would produce a fireball 1 kilometer in diameter.

So this bomb is significantly more energetic than 100 kilotons.

	12-09-2004 10:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Hmmm... apparantly SK's Unification Minister...

I stopped reading right there. For a whole lot of reasons.

	12-09-2004 10:33									#19
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True, but at least he's not an anonymous source.

	12-09-2004 10:35									#20
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quote: How is SK behavior explained? Is there an overwhelming desire to put unification over safety and well-being? Is the South government in league with the North?

It's the Unification Minister. It's like a Minister for McDonalds advocating eating four Big Macs a day. We know it's wrong, but the Minister isn't going to say otherwise is he?

	12-09-2004 10:39									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo True, but at least he's not an anonymous source.

It's actually quite a bit worse given the behavior of SK wrt North Korea.

	12-09-2004 10:41									#22
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If that was a test, was the DPRK trying to piss of China?

	12-09-2004 11:09									#23
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With an explosion that big, both us and the South Koreans know EXACTLY what happened.

There is not guessing whatsoever.

They are just trying to figure out how to either sell it or quiet it down.

	12-09-2004 11:12									#24
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Might be both -- they may have managed to accidentally pop the nuke before it got to the test site.

If it was a deliberate, successful test, North Korea would be trumpeting it from the mountaintops, and it seems a little...big...to be anything else.

	12-09-2004 11:13									#25
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quote: was the DPRK trying to piss of China?

Indeed, that can't be going well with them.

	12-09-2004 11:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Might be both -- they may have managed to accidentally pop the nuke before it got to the test site. If it was a deliberate, successful test, North Korea would be trumpeting it from the mountaintops, and it seems a little...big...to be anything else.

I like this theory.

I think they messed something up.

	12-09-2004 11:20									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Indeed, that can't be going well with them.

That's why I lean towards the fact it might be an accident. Why would they do something like that? there one last ally?

	12-09-2004 11:28									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Found this: http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/.../technical3.asp quote: The fireball from a 10-kiloton explosion at ground level would reach a radius of 200 meters, hence would have a diameter of 400 meters or about a quarter of a mile. Everything within this radius would be completely destroyed. In the case of a badly designed or badly implemented bomb that yielded only 1 kiloton, the fireball would have a diameter about 2.5 times smaller, hence about 150 meters. The surface explosion of a 100 kiloton weapon, as conceivably might be stolen from the arsenal of an advanced nuclear-weapon state, would produce a fireball 1 kilometer in diameter. So this bomb is significantly more energetic than 100 kilotons.

the cloud = the fireball?

	12-09-2004 11:45									#29
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Lord knows, this is proof positive that we were right to go into Iraq!

	12-09-2004 11:50									#30
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Some other people said that Hiroshima was 5km on another forum, and that would put this explosion in the 6-10 kiloton range apparently.