14-09-2004 23:44									#1
	Turn 244 - 1190 AD Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'll be playing the turn soon. We got 1 pollution, in Typhoon - we can either melt down an Med Inf to enable a Tank next turn or switch to a Destroyer.

	15-09-2004 02:38									#2
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I say melt the med inf.

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 02:39									#3
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Standing Info

2 forest remains, D-ville 99 and WoC 23.

Defense Plan
Aeson's comments


Start


- RP sends 100g + WM. Sending WM in return (at end of turn).

- EotS builds Tank, start Tank.

- Hurricane builds Tank, start Tank.

- Cyclone builds Settler, builds Settler.

- Tempest builds Tank. starts Tank.

- Pollution hits Typhoon, but it can be fixed with WF shuffle.

- Sufa builds Explorer. Starts Worker.

- Sandstorm builds Settler. Starts Settler.

- Whirlwind builds Tank, starts Tank

- WoC builds Tank. Starts Tank.

- Santa Ana builds Tank. Starts Tank.


- Switched Eliopolis to Fighter

- Lego has Atomic Theory.


- 2207 gold, 70%, 700bpt, -187 gpt. (computers in 7 of 9) 1403/6240 beakers collected. (is it this turns bpt showing or last that gets added?)
Modern Era Tech Cost



shortrushes
- disband MI in SA.
- shortrush to settler (20 gold, 80 gold)


forces
(- 5 MI, 2 galley)
- 14 art
- 24 workers
- 7 settlers (+.53/turn)
- 20 rifle
- 57 inf
- 69 tanks (+ 6.75/turn)
- 12 galleon
- 20 destroyer (+1.08/turn)
- 11 transports (+0/turn)
- 2 carrier
- 3 sub (+0/turn)
- 3 explorer (+.18/turn)

- Strong in strength to GoW, to ND, and to Lego.
- Legoland with no Vox slaves this turn



Moves

- Clear pollution at Typhoon8 and in Spain.

- Galleon into Hurricane

- DD forts outside Hurricane

- DD into Sufa

- DD from Inchoff to existing DD post. DD from post moves up towards northern Galleon.

- DD from Blizzard to Galleon post. Galleon there heads towards Blizzard .

- 6 new tanks to 6 East coast cities.


- Southern Sub moves 444. Sights Lego transport 'Cartographer' at Tipperary444111.

- Northern sub stays. Sees 3 Lego BS - Panama, Karina, Kloreepville.

- Central sub moves 224.

- all the rest fort, extra workers on the coast included.


workforce shuffles

Typhoon takes Wheat at Typhoon9 from Cyclone for 56spt and Tank next turn to recover from pollution.
Shuffle : Sufa yields Sufa8 to Tornado, which yields Tornado-1 to Cyclone.


Current Builds
the plan basically is to keep building whatever is building in a city, and from the moment we get marines from GoW, switch all tanks to marines.


Eli : Fighter in 1
Inchon : explorer in 3.
WoC : tank in 1
Inchoff : tank in 2
D-ville : tank in 1
Santa Ana : tank in 1.
Blizzard : destroyer in 2
Monsoon : tank in 1
Arashi : palace in 11 (prebuild for CIA)
WW : tank in 4
Tempest : tank in 1
SS: settler in 3 (shows 4)
Hurricane : tank in 2
OG : DD in 2
EotS : tank in 1
Bolderberg : DD in 2
Cyclone: settler in 5
Tornado : Tank in 1
Typhoon : tank in 1
Sufa : Worker in 5


Diplo

Communism NTA has expired. Sent to RP with WM. Is there any reason why we can't send them Mass Production now?


Other

Maybe Diplo Bug with GoW.


Next Turn

Shuffle WF around Typhoon.

	15-09-2004 02:39									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I say melt the med inf. -Arrian

'sOK, a WF shuffle fixed it

	15-09-2004 03:16									#5
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Sweet

	15-09-2004 17:13									#6
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Is there any way to edit the tread title to the correct turn no.?

Question re upgrading infantry during the invasion. We are getting computers whilst in mid-ocean, which gives us MI (unless my memory has totally failed me). What is the plan (if any) re upgrading. We are (probably) going to have to raze any coastal city we capture, and presumably rebuild one on the same spot at the end of the turn to give us a port. If the captured city has a barracks, do we:

a) upgrade infantry to MI before razing, so that Lego have no chance of taking the new city in a counterattack (against fortified MI - but we have no flexibility to do anything with the inf in that first turn)
b) Not upgrade, in case we capture a good inland city with barracks later on which we'd rather hold with MI (or want to use some infantry for some other purpose), but maybe have to live with infantry defenders for the first turn or two (and rush a barracks in the new city immediately)
c) A mixture - upgrade some MI, and keep some as a reserve, on the basis that 20 MI ought to be able to stop most things

Actually, I think I might go and have a look at cavalry and/or tanks vs MI to see how many we realistically need. MI are 24 defence, aren't they?

	15-09-2004 18:24									#7
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We cannot be sure that a captured city will retain a barracks and we will not be able to rush anything, unless we disband units (no way, unless it is transports).

If we raze, we can buy a barracks and it will be available on the next turn.

As to upgrades, it is a matter of cash and expediency. Without a troops disposition for Lego, I can't say, but would you expect them to toss everything they have at a city with lots of units?

If it was me, I would not want to slam into a stack of infantry or MI. I would rather get more for my buck by hitting units in the field.

It will also depend on what they have in the vicinity.

	15-09-2004 21:13									#8
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I thought you guys were only going to build like 44 Tanks... next turn you'll have 75?

	15-09-2004 21:17									#9
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We're only sending 44 tanks in the first wave of the invasion...

We need something for wave 2, and tanks are also ideal for home defence. I keep one parked in the kitchen.

	15-09-2004 21:56									#10
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When the hell are we going to start building Marines?? As far as I can tell we don't have any, and we are gong to be cutting it close, and won't have the option to increase the unit numbers again in the future.

	15-09-2004 23:00									#11
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We still need the tech from GoW? I think we can get to 50 Marines if we start building them next turn. I would prefer as many Marines as possible. We wanted 23 DD's, so we are close. We have the Tanks already. (69 already? That doesn't sound right.) Transports (Galleons) are ready. We have all the Explorers we're going to need.

So we need the tech from GoW next turn. Switch all Tank/Fighter/Explorer builds to Marines as soon as we can break into the build queue (after EotS' Tank?). Cities building DD's finish those and start with Marines too (or maybe just start on Marines and we go with 20 DD's). Should get us to around 8 Marines per turn for the final 5 turns we have to build. Throw in some rushes and we can still make it.

So we definitely need to get the tech for Marines this next turn!

Last edited by Aeson on 15-09-2004 at 23:05

	15-09-2004 23:04									#12
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dp

	16-09-2004 00:18									#13
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Message sent to Panzer reminding them for Amphib next turn if they have it.

	16-09-2004 11:21									#14
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amphib is not right: we should have gotten that already.

Further, plans were made for 240, any delay should bring us more marines.

explorer builds to marines is of no use, as they are only in 1 spt cities. DD builds should be switched, once we get to 26. However, these could also be used for MI builds, as otherwise they will only lose shields. Also, I'm half expecting to loose a lot of DDs, we are going to need to replace these as well, if we want to be safe from GoW.

MI while sailing: no, delay is needed to be able to upgrade at least part of them before attacking. However, don't forget we can chain: 16 MI would be ideal to chain with 2 transports, so for every 2 transports we risk to loose, we gain one turn on the tech schedule. We won't need it, though, seeing the GoW time schedule, we can upgrade them easily at home, and sail without chaining.

So, MI before we start sailing, pressure GoW for those marines (they should have gotten them last turn, and if they don't send it to us fast, we should seriously start considering doing it ourselves), more DDs are no waste, and keep our empire running smoothly! (looks like everything is more or less going fine)

Next week, I'll try to get some detailed loading plans in place, but we should now whether we have enough marines, and when exactly GoW is going to invade (1280 is too late, IMO)

DeepO

	16-09-2004 16:13									#15
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Waiting for MI before sailing is another turn delay. But as DeepO says, with a few extra trannies in the initial fleet, we can use chaining to get post-departure MI to join up with the fleet pre-invasion. But by my reckoning, we're going to need 3 trannies for every 8 MI we want to catch up to the initial fleet, with the sequence being something like:

T 240 : fleet + tran1 and tran2 sail from Port to A. tran3 waits in Port
T 241 : get computers. Upgrade infantry. fleet + tran1 sail from A to B tran2 waits at A, tran3 at port
T 242 : load MI into tran3, move to A, load to tran2, move to B, load to tran1. Fleet plus tran1 (with MI) move to C
T 243 : D-day. Move from C to target city.

I'm assuming we'll have to do it by upgrading, since I've no idea how many MI we can arrange to have through pre-builds on turn 241 - presumably by doing the usual cycle through the cities once we get into the build queue. I'd be amazed if we can get 16, and fill 2 trannies. If we can get 8, we can save on one trannie, needing only 5 extra...

	17-09-2004 10:35									#16
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We won't be able to build any MI. We'll need every last build to be a Marine from now on if we're going to get close to the 56 we were aiming for.

We can go without MI, Infantry can cover pretty well considering the numbers of Tanks Lego will have had time to build. Taking a coastal city from Lego with Marines on the other hand is an absolute must.

	17-09-2004 10:42									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO explorer builds to marines is of no use, as they are only in 1 spt cities. DD builds should be switched, once we get to 26. However, these could also be used for MI builds, as otherwise they will only lose shields. Also, I'm half expecting to loose a lot of DDs, we are going to need to replace these as well, if we want to be safe from GoW.

We're going to have to rush (and/or short-rush) several Marines just to get to 50 I think. At 8 a turn (5 more turns) we will be sailing with 40, which is tempting fate. If we can still get to 56 we need to try. The money will be better spent than upgrading Inf to MI or even getting Computers IMO.

	17-09-2004 10:48									#18
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quote: Originally posted by vulture Is there any way to edit the tread title to the correct turn no.?

234, correct?

	17-09-2004 13:35									#19
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Yeah, thanks NYE

	17-09-2004 13:35									#20
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Message in from Panzer. Ampib next turn.

	20-09-2004 14:02									#21
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Aeson, I agree on the obsolute priority to get the marines we need, or everything else fails. However, I was still under the impression the invasion date was a bit delayed....

Rushing with gold is going to be tricky: we need cash for our espionage missions. I'd prefer to delay the invasion 1 or 2 turns if we're not sure, instead of risking being broke once we're invading.

DeepO

	20-09-2004 15:13									#22
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We can generate some extra cash by delaying computers. If we're not going to generate any home-grown Mech Inf in the near future, then we don't strictly need to get computers until the turn we land, which means we can delay it by 2 turns - i.e. we get two full turns of 100% cash (in effect - ignoring luxury slider, which is hopefully at 0?). That should be enough to improve our short-rushing of marines and upgrading infantry to some extent.. It's an extra 2000 gold, more or less, isn't it?

	20-09-2004 17:50									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Again, we should have some more accurate predictions before decisions... but consider this: we need computers the turn of invasion, together with some upgrade cash. As we're not building any infs in the mean time, there is no immediate gain in delaying it. Further, we need espionage money that same turn.

So, whether we delay computers or not, it doesn't matter, as it has to be finished the same turn. Rushing forward on the tech only holds advantages in case we want to delay the invasion for one turn, as then we will have MI support instead of inf support. We will be facing some tanks from Lego, so IMHO MI is worth the one turn delay (if needed).

Oh, and we're making some 400 gpt when at 100% tax, I believe (but it's been a while). We make 1000 bpt at 100% science, but we've got more unis then we have banks

DeepO

	21-09-2004 00:24									#24
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MZ asked to delay (our fleets departure) until 240 right? We confirmed. That gives us 5 turns of production.

	26-09-2004 16:25									#25
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DeepO, are you OK to play the 1210AD turn?

	26-09-2004 18:38									#26
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It's busy, but I'll squeeze it in

DeepO