15-09-2004 01:03									#1
	Terrifying Got spare money?

I really hope Aljazeera is being biased and totally propagandist on this one.

	15-09-2004 01:05									#2
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Take a wild guess.

	15-09-2004 01:09									#3
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Its more fair and balanced than FOX.

	15-09-2004 01:10									#5
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3656354.stm

	15-09-2004 01:10									#6
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Discusting.

But am I surprised, no.


Spec.

	15-09-2004 01:12									#7
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it was really clever keeping DU out of the thread title, to avoid having folks who actually have technical knowledge of DU show up.

	15-09-2004 01:12									#8
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Read the first part and got to this:

quote: The WMD in question is depleted uranium (DU).

So the DU issue rides again. As for the article, well, I stopped reading there. Not because I think DU is harmless (I actually think the long-term health effects require serious study), but rather due to the clear slant of the article. I couldn't take it seriously.

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:13									#9
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This is one instance where Al Jazeera has a point... they are the Islamic World's FOX though... no doubt about that.

BTW, the use of depleted uranium is considered use of a weapon of mass destruction by the UN.

	15-09-2004 01:15									#10
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There's nothing new about this. Depleted Uranium has been used since GW I and also has been used in Kosovo. You don't have to read Aljazeera for knowing that. I' d even rate it as common knowledge.
And, DU doesn't only harm it's targets, but also the coalition soldiers. It harms virtually everyone who spends a longer time there.

	15-09-2004 01:16									#11
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quote: BTW, the use of depleted uranium is considered use of a weapon of mass destruction by the UN.

Which is rather silly.

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:17									#12
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Well bear in mind that Uranium itself it incredibly toxic.

	15-09-2004 01:19									#13
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I think the military's claims about the relative harmlessness of DU to be unlikely, I'll say that. At the end of the day, the Army doesn't seem to really give a **** what the battlefield ends up like after they've fought the battle. Which isn't good.

But DU, whatever you may think about it (use it, don't use it, use it in only certain situations), is certainly not a WMD as we know them.

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Which is rather silly. -Arrian

WHy don't you strap some of those rounds next to your nutsack for a while and tell me what you think then.

	15-09-2004 01:21									#15
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Yeah, it is not that radioactive. But when fired at such high velocities would form a dust. It would be like breathing in lead dust, not very good for you...

	15-09-2004 01:21									#16
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DU falls into the same category as landmines.

	15-09-2004 01:23									#17
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quote: [Yeah, it is not that radioactive. But when fired at such high velocities would form a dust. It would be like breathing in lead dust, not very good for you..

duh. Breathing in any heavy metal isn't good for you. Doesn't mean it's a WMD...

	15-09-2004 01:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark it was really clever keeping DU out of the thread title, to avoid having folks who actually have technical knowledge of DU show up.

Thanks, but actually I see no reason why people with relevent technical knowledge would keep away from any thread title that didn't mention DU.

	15-09-2004 01:27									#19
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Exactly Az, I never said it was, just that it is toxic.

	15-09-2004 01:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Read the first part and got to this: So the DU issue rides again. As for the article, well, I stopped reading there. Not because I think DU is harmless (I actually think the long-term health effects require serious study), but rather due to the clear slant of the article. I couldn't take it seriously. -Arrian

I was initially going to make this a thread about 'Is Aljazeera biased' and use this article as an example and have a poll. But I found this latest report re DU interesting enough in it's own right, even though I've read similar articles and books on the subject in the past.

Your option not to read further is meaningless either way. In fact you're the ideal target of any propaganda campaign aimed at any political viewpont in the world, no matter what the ideology.

Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil Comrade/Capitalist/Islamiac/Fascist/Whatever.

	15-09-2004 01:29									#21
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quote: WHy don't you strap some of those rounds next to your nutsack for a while and tell me what you think then

I think I'll pass, Savita. I do intend to breed.

What Az said. Maybe even what Dauphin said (I guess landmines strike me as worse because the result of stepping on one is so clear: boom. DU is a little murkier).

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:36									#22
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Personally, I think DU would be worse then a chemical gas attack or something. At least one can wear a gas mask.

	15-09-2004 01:36									#23
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Tch. Why does it fall to UN to clear up the DU? The Americans cleaned up the stuff that fell on Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in the first Gulf War. Would have been a nice honourable gesture for them to do the cleaning up, rather than let others undo the damage.

	15-09-2004 01:38									#24
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DU's not a wmd. wmd is designed to take out a lot of targets in one go: i.e., a nuke takes care of a city in one blast, bio and chem strikes are supposed to hit a population harshly in one blast. a DU shell, in contrast, is designed to take out a tank in one hit.

incredibly toxic? yes. wmd? no.

the question is more whether we should use it or not... unfortunately, there isn't much better than DU when you look for something with sheer penetration capabilities, and the only one that comes close is tungsten--which is a good deal more expensive than DU.

that's the murky part.

	15-09-2004 01:39									#25
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Well, if the primary danger from DU would be inhaling the dust, would a gas mask help? Or is the dust too fine?

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by oedo There's nothing new about this. Depleted Uranium has been used since GW I and also has been used in Kosovo. You don't have to read Aljazeera for knowing that. I' d even rate it as common knowledge. And, DU doesn't only harm it's targets, but also the coalition soldiers. It harms virtually everyone who spends a longer time there.

Indeed there' nothing new, but I don't think that only things that are new and trendy need to be discussed. I don't believ that only what's hip and happening in todays media is important. I never shy away from looking at old issues again, perhaps finding a new angle on old information, or bringing the issue to people who hadn't encountered it before (believe it or not there are people out there who don't know everything you know).

I'm no Muslim, I don't care only about muslim brothers or something, I think DU sucks because I believe it damages the people of the nations where it's used, the soldiers in the area no matter what rflag they fly, and the global environment at large, that is everybody in the world. So saying that it also hurts US troops etc is meaningless... my point was never that 'DU sucks because it hurts these guys over here whereas the evil imperialist Americans pig-dogs are of course immune to radiologicaly and chemically hazadous material'. That's not my world view at all.

I am sincerely worried about this as I'd be if N. Korea was conducting atmospheric nuclear tests, for the same reason. In the article it say's even sections of the USArmy itself expressed concerns about DU weapons prior to GW1. Begs the question- who pushed it, Nuclear Industry?

	15-09-2004 01:40									#27
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Arrian, how long would you be wanting to wear that mask?

	15-09-2004 01:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Well, if the primary danger from DU would be inhaling the dust, would a gas mask help? Or is the dust too fine? -Arrian

but DU is like pollution... it doesn't just affect you during the attack or whatever... it has long term effects that are worse than chemical weapons. I understand why the UN considers it a WMD.

	15-09-2004 01:42									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Tch. Why does it fall to UN to clear up the DU? The Americans cleaned up the stuff that fell on Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in the first Gulf War. Would have been a nice honourable gesture for them to do the cleaning up, rather than let others undo the damage.

I thought the same thing, actually. I think this one's on us. It's a fight we picked, rightly or wrongly (let's not get into THAT again). I thought I saw something in there about funding coming from Germany and France (I was skimming), so I suppose it could be a quiet olive branch to the U.S. "We still think you guys were nuts to do this, but yeah, we'll help ya clean up the mess."

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 01:44									#30
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How about industrial diamond? (probably would get to hot for it, I presume)