18-09-2004 23:45									#151
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As long as any changes don't favor the democrats, I'd be cool with it.

	19-09-2004 00:17									#152
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quote: The two parties engineered the "winner takes all" electoral vote system just to prevent any third parties from breaking in to the system.

Perhaps I'm not reading this correctly, but given that the electoral system was in place before there were the two parties, hell, even before there was a country, how do you think they arranged this?

	19-09-2004 00:21									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Nice attack, no cigar. Kerry is a lot worse then Bore, I mean Gore.

Ah yes, I forgot, being boring is worse than fvcking up the economy, fighting useless wars and generally play the big dumbass...

But then Bush is sooooooo sympathic!!

	19-09-2004 00:22									#155
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The elector system was in place but the "winner takes all" system was a modern change which the two parties pushed through. It prevents small parties from ever getting electoral votes and it also prevents third parties from taking off because they'd have to go from zero to 51% in a single vote before they'd ever carry a state.

	19-09-2004 00:23									#156
	Suffering from ads?

How the electoral votes are divided are a state issue, not a federal issue. The states could divide the electoral votes proportionally within each state.

The bigger problem is that most of the states have set very high barriers to getting on the ballot unless you're in one of the two major parties (witness the Democrats running around trying to knock Nader off the ballot).

Also, without an IRV or proportional voting for legistlatures, people who'd prefer to vote for another party, can't for fear of the spoiler effect.

	19-09-2004 00:23									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Ah yes, I forgot, being boring is worse than fvcking up the economy, fighting useless wars and generally play the big dumbass... But then Bush is sooooooo sympathic!!

Nice mess up again! Bush didn't mess up the economy (it is booming), the Iraq war was a liberation war liberating millions.. and Bush isn't a dumbass.

	19-09-2004 01:23									#158
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I think you're the one messing things. Liberation war? I'd call it the flip-flop war. First it's about the ghost story that is WMD, now it's about liberating iraqis and after finding out, they don't really want the american way it will be about oil and money.

But at least he wasn't boring. I mean, that would have really totally sucked!

	19-09-2004 01:55									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I think you're the one messing things. Liberation war? I'd call it the flip-flop war. First it's about the ghost story that is WMD, now it's about liberating iraqis and after finding out, they don't really want the american way it will be about oil and money. But at least he wasn't boring. I mean, that would have really totally sucked!

There you go again messing up! That's sad whenever you say something it doesn't quite.. come out accurate. I don't know that feeling since everything I say is right.

	19-09-2004 03:39									#160
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Would you two chill...

Discuss the topic. lay off of each other.

	19-09-2004 04:18									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Why is it Ross Perot got 21% of the popular vote but 0% of the electoral vote? Why is it that wasn't a one time thing but a reoccuring theme? The two parties can get away with putting crap candidates up for election because they've rigged the system so that the people won't ever get any other real choices.

Ross Perot elected Clinton.

Ralph Nader elected Bush.

Wallace elected Nixon.

Third party candidates are extremely harmful to their cause by taking votes away from the major party candidate closest overall to the third party candidate.

What you want is a runoff if noone gets to 50%. But that would take a constitutional amendment that would eliminate the electoral college.

Fat chance.

	19-09-2004 04:22									#162
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Ned, or he wants to abolish the electoral college.


Just to throw out my own opinion like everyone has always wanted to know:
I'm fine with a plurality. If Bush won by 40% to Kerry 39% and Nader 11%, I'd be fine with it (barring funnystuff in places like Florida.)

But I'm not fine if Kerry wins more of the popular vote but Bush manages to become President again, regardless of Nader's involvement.

HOWEVER, if Nader, Bush, or Kerry can't properly file to get on the ballot in any state, they shouldn't be allowed on it, no exceptions made. Just in the past week I've heard of Bush failing to get on in Alabama and Florida, but exceptions were made to extend deadlines. Why do we have deadlines in the first place if they're to be ignored?

	19-09-2004 08:20									#163
	Remove this text

oooooh and the real reason why the Gallop polls shows Bush so far ahead: its "normalized" or weighted so that in ALL their national political polls 40% comes from Republicans and 33% percent comes from Democrats with the rest being independents. So bascially if they get the same number of Democratic and Republicans respondents in the poll they count the Republicans responces more.

This is BS.

In 1992 exit polls (ie the people who actually did vote) it was:
34% Democrats, 34% Republicans and 33%
and in '96:
39% Democrats, 34% Republicans, and 27% Independents
and in 2000
39% Democrats, 35% Republicans and 26% Independents in 2000.

And I won't go like Fezzy and scream bias (I think this is bad methodology on Gallups part not bias) but it is interesting to know that the CEO of Gallup is a GOP donor.

source:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002806.html

	19-09-2004 08:33									#164
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Already been posted. And if the Gallup poll is so wrong, why are other polls like the CBS/NYT and the ABC/WaPo showing big leads for Bush, as well? You can criticize the methodology of Gallup all you want, but they don't seem to be the only ones using these kind of internals...

BTW, I'd love to see you try to call CBS/NYT and ABC/WaPo biased towards the GOP...

	19-09-2004 08:33									#165
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Yep. The same thing with the CBS poll.

	19-09-2004 08:36									#166
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CBS had a question asking the people who they voted for in 2000. Here are the results:

Gore - 28
Bush - 36
Buchanan - 1
Nader - 1
Voted, won't say - 1
Didn't vote - 32

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/atrios/nytcbspoll.pdf

	19-09-2004 08:37									#167
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quote: BTW, I'd love to see you try to call CBS/NYT and ABC/WaPo biased towards the GOP...

I'd love to see you try to call Fox biased towards the Dems.

	19-09-2004 08:38									#168
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I'm not accusing anyone of bias (in this matter, at least)...

	19-09-2004 08:40									#169
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I sure hope Bush wins.

Then you're all screwed even faster.

I'd like to see any Yank walk around any major world city after this wearing a flag and see how long they last. Kinda like someone wearing a swastika in Germany.

	19-09-2004 08:42									#170
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quote: I'd like to see any Yank walk around any major world city after this wearing a flag and see how long they last.

I'll do it in Osaka and take pictures of all the women it gets me...

	19-09-2004 08:45									#171
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: I'm not accusing anyone of bias (in this matter, at least)...

CBS and ABC don't have any methodological problems, AFAIK. Gallup specifically fudges the data to put an unrealistic distribution on Party ID. That is bias.

	19-09-2004 08:45									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I sure hope Bush wins. Then you're all screwed even faster. I'd like to see any Yank walk around any major world city after this wearing a flag and see how long they last. Kinda like someone wearing a swastika in Germany.

As a Yank who's job forces him to walk around major world cities representing his government while working in embassies that are under daily threat of attack, and as someone who frequently wears an American flag pin on his lapel, let me be the first to say: F*ck you.

	19-09-2004 08:47									#173
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quote: As a Yank who's job forces him to walk around major world cities representing his government while working in embassies that are under daily threat of attack, and as someone who frequently wears an American flag pin on his lapel, let me be the first to say: F*ck you.

Do what all smart Americans do.

Wear a Maple Leaf.

quote: I'll do it in Osaka and take pictures of all the women it gets me...

That's only because you look like Michael Owen.

	19-09-2004 08:50									#174
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quote: That's only because you look like Michael Owen.

I don't, believe me. No, all the tail I pull will be solely based on love of America.

	19-09-2004 08:52									#175
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quote: I don't, believe me. No, all the tail I pull will be solely based on love of America.

You haven't stooped to Green-Card booty have you?

	19-09-2004 08:53									#176
	Put an end to popups!

quote: CBS and ABC don't have any methodological problems, AFAIK. Gallup specifically fudges the data to put an unrealistic distribution on Party ID. That is bias.

That, or smart methodology based on years of experience that is getting them a realistic result (as evidenced by similar results from CBS and ABC). It's only a clear cut case of "bias" to you because your boy is on the wrong side of their methodology...

	19-09-2004 08:54									#177
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quote: You haven't stooped to Green-Card booty have you?

**** no, dawg. Ain't no J-bird gonna put a ring on my finger...

	19-09-2004 08:57									#178
	Got spare money?

As for Ned getting credit for predicting a Bush landslide, I still have a bet going with Boris that Bush will win 2/3rds of the states, and 2/3rds of the electoral college.

I made this bet way back in February.

	19-09-2004 08:58									#179
	Tired of ads?

quote: **** no, dawg. Ain't no J-bird gonna put a ring on my finger...

One nabbed my brother already. It can happen to anyone!!!

	19-09-2004 09:01									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon One nabbed my brother already. It can happen to anyone!!!

You Kiwis are just desperate for a woman, any woman, after years of sheep ********. Us true playa Yanks don't have that problem...