26-09-2004 21:42									#181
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You are a loon.

	26-09-2004 21:54									#182
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Why, Che. Ingore Nixon's language, and just look at what he did. You support all of that.

	27-09-2004 04:38									#183
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We need to get the Newsmax forums going again so Ned can find soulmates.

	27-09-2004 05:26									#184
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quote: NAFTA is about capitalism. Anything which gives more power to capital is a bad thing.

Trade tariffs and barriers are better? Btw, Nafta was not about capitalism, it could fit on one page if that was true. But Nafta is thousands of pages with thousands of regulations and do that but don't do that. It's been a while but lets see if I can remember one - Americans could buy a new car made in Mexico but not used cars. Nafta MAY promote more free trade than allowed before it, but it's far from free trade...

	27-09-2004 05:51									#185
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara All we are saying Is give peace a chance!

They were saying "give peace a chance"? I thought they were saying "give piece of ass". That's very different.

	27-09-2004 05:59									#186
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If everyone got a piece of that there wouldn't be any more wars.

Here endeth the lesson.

	27-09-2004 06:05									#187
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quote: If Democrats were communists, there'd be no seperate communist organizations. Dems believe in capitalism, we don't. End of debate.

* St Leo points at the Marxist-Lenist Party of Canada and the Communist Party of Canada

Actually, what you mean to say is that, if the Democrats were communists, there would be no legal Republican party.

	27-09-2004 07:12									#188
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: If Democrats were communists, there'd be no seperate communist organizations. Dems believe in capitalism, we don't. End of debate. * St Leo points at the Marxist-Lenist Party of Canada and the Communist Party of Canada Actually, what you mean to say is that, if the Democrats were communists, there would be no legal Republican party.

Ah, come on. Get real. The Dems cannot take total control because we have a constitution and a Supreme Court. The last Dem to try to subvert the constitution to get his way was FDR. He tried to pack the Court with his lackeys. But, when he tried to do that, he lost the support of the people.

	29-09-2004 15:04									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Can you show me one difference between the platform of the communists and the platform of the Democrats? The two are remarkably similar.

I wasn't aware that Kerry wanted to abolish private property of the means of production. It also escaped me that Kerry was for agricultural collectivization.

	30-09-2004 02:46									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I wasn't aware that Kerry wanted to abolish private property of the means of production. It also escaped me that Kerry was for agricultural collectivization.

AFAIK, Communists aren't even in favor of these things anymore.

	30-09-2004 03:04									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Ned AFAIK, Communists aren't even in favor of these things anymore.

Ask the members of the Communist Party of Apolyton. I think the only commonality between us is that we all want an economic system devoid of the PPOTMOP

	30-09-2004 04:42									#192
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Spiffor, then we really have to start drawing distinctions between communists of brand A and communists of brand B. From my understanding, even Stalin gave up on banning private ownership of business before WWII. The commies in power tend to focus on owning the major corporations and conducting central planning. But, even there, commies in Asia are changing that tune.

I don't think real communists (meaning those in power) are in favor of collective farming anymore. They are, though, in favor of breaking up large landholdings in redistributing them to the peasants, something real communists seem to have in common with of the Gracchi brothers of ancient Rome, who, of course, were assassinated.

So, I think todays' liberals are more like real communists than the fantasy world types that inhabit Apolyton.

Your turn.

	30-09-2004 05:02									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Spiffor, then we really have to start drawing distinctions between communists of brand A and communists of brand B. From my understanding, even Stalin gave up on banning private ownership of business before WWII.

Lenin allowed the NEP, with some extent of capitalism in it, to help rebuild the USSR. Stalin ended the NEP, and was the most brutal in collectivizing agriculture, as he genocided the rich peasantry. I think peasants have been allowed to have some private land only much later, IIRC in the wake of the main reforms following destalinization.

quote: The commies in power tend to focus on owning the major corporations and conducting central planning. But, even there, commies in Asia are changing that tune.

China is a capitalist country, with a "communist" Party in power. Don't know about Vietnam. In Cuba, the economy is planned, at least in part. I don't see Kerry or the Democrats advocating the planification of the economy, and the nationalization of most big businesses.

quote: So, I think todays' liberals are more like real communists than the fantasy world types that inhabit Apolyton.

"Real Communists" have not reached communism yet, and are (at best) in a transition toward communism. Many "real communists" have also rejected the aim of creating a communist society, making them "Communists" only in name (especially the Chinese ones, who support a free-market ideology that would scare many Americans).

Again, I have yet to see a liberal like Boris advocating the nationalization of Boeing or Microsoft. I have yet to see a liberal like The Emperor Fabulous support a central authority that will decide the prices of all commodities. And I have yet to see a liberal like MrFun support the abolition of the stock exchange, and the collectivization of all non-monopersonal businesses.

	30-09-2004 05:21									#194
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OK, Spiffor, these so-called liberals are "real" communists who are not "true" communists who still believe in the fantasy world of robot workers and plenty for all so that we can dispense with things like money and property.

	30-09-2004 05:26									#195
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If the liberals are "real" Communists like in China, they threaten the very fabric of your society with a free-marketeer ideology that is far too extreme.

If the liberals are "real" Communists like in Cuba, they advocate the nationalization of all major businesses and the planification of the economy. I don't see them advocating either way.

	30-09-2004 05:54									#196
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Let's put it this way: Real communists fear private corporations and, to the extent they permit them to exist, watch them carefully and always have or want a veto over anything they do. Are liberals any different?

	30-09-2004 05:59									#197
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If you reduce Real Communists to that (again, expelling China), you're right.

Real Communists also promote education. Republicans do as well. I guess the Republicans are Commies then

	30-09-2004 06:01									#198
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Anti-Corporation propaganda is a hallmark of Liberal politics. Their favorite thing to do is to say that Republicans are in the pockets of greedy corporations that are undertaxed and out of control. Communists don't differ at all in this regard. Both want to control corporations and business.

	30-09-2004 06:12									#199
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Spiffor, glad we finally agree. As I have said before, the Communist Manifesto did have some good ideas, like universal education. But, these ideas did not originate with Marx or the Paris socialists. They originated with Martin Luther.