25-09-2004 16:57									#151
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If Democrats were communists, there'd be no seperate communist organizations. Dems believe in capitalism, we don't. End of debate. Commies believe in abolishing the state. Repugs believe in limited government. OMFG! The Republicans are Communists. Note that communists even call themselves red republicans! It's a communist conspiracy!!!!! OMFG!!!!!!

If they are in favor of abolishing the state, why are they against NAFTA, which works toward erasing national boundaries?

	25-09-2004 19:28									#152
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To suggest that Democrats (and I exclude here, Southern and moderate Democrats, who are members of the party by ancestry, not by choice) "believe" in capitalism is a joke. They do everything in their power to hamstring free enterprise, to regulate it, and to own it where possible. They are limited in achieving their goals only by the Republican party.

Think of what Dean advocated this year. Total regulation of all industry by the government. He didn't suggest a total takeover only because he didn't want to reveal his hand.

When is the last time any Democrat said anything positive about any corporation, other that Global Crossing which provided Democrat party leaders tens of millions of insider trading profits.

Believe in capitalism, my ass.

	25-09-2004 20:04									#153
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk If they are in favor of abolishing the state, why are they against NAFTA, which works toward erasing national boundaries?

NAFTA is about capitalism. Anything which gives more power to capital is a bad thing.

	25-09-2004 20:05									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why didn't Jane sing that when she was the honored guest of the North Vietnamese? Why?

Because every nation has the right to defend itself from foreign invaders, i.e., the U.S.

	25-09-2004 20:09									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Ned To suggest that Democrats (and I exclude here, Southern and moderate Democrats, who are members of the party by ancestry, not by choice) "believe" in capitalism is a joke. They do everything in their power to hamstring free enterprise, to regulate it, and to own it where possible.

Yeah, regluation sux. we need to go to the days when you could be served lye and told it was a medicine, when you could be served a mouse in your sandwich, and when car companies weren't required to put in saftefy devices. You anti-regulation people ARE ****ING MORONS!!!!!

Little tip here for ya, Neddie, without regulation capitalism goes bye-bye. It loses its human face, shows people the voracious beast it truely is, and makes the anti-capitalist movement swell. So go ahead, do my job for me. Reveal the naked face of capitalism so I can overthrow your sorry asses.

	25-09-2004 20:16									#156
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Why do you hate capitalism? Don't like competition or that maybe somebody is doing better than you? For that matter, do you openly talk in public about the stuff you talk about on here? I have trouble understanding the mindset of a communist. The only conclusion I can come to is that they can't make it in a capitalist world and therefore want to rely on others to make a living for them. Either that or they are just so jealous that they demand everyone who does better than them to be brought down to their level. It's actually pretty selfish when you get right down to it.

	25-09-2004 20:21									#157
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Why do you hate capitalism? . . .

Another example of how you don't know what the hell you're talking about and how you keep putting your misinformed opinions into the mouths of others. This thread, however, is not the place for yet another interminable cap-com debate. Start a seperate thread or let it go for now.

	25-09-2004 20:28									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Ned When is the last time any Democrat said anything positive about any corporation, other that Global Crossing which provided Democrat party leaders tens of millions of insider trading profits. Believe in capitalism, my ass.

Do corporations really need or give a **** about being "praised?"

None I've ever dealt with do. The only point that's important is to avoid any major, lasting negative perception among too much of the population.

	25-09-2004 20:32									#159
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Do corporations really need or give a **** about being "praised?" None I've ever dealt with do. They only point that's important is to avoid any major, lasting negative perception among too much of the population.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The avoidence of getting sued and in the newspaper guides a large part of corporate decision making.

	25-09-2004 20:38									#160
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quote: You anti-regulation people ARE ****ING MORONS!!!!!

You're right, I'm just a misinformed miscreant going around putting opinions in people's mouths. Thankyou for putting me in my place oh great che for you are truely full of love. Hate capitalism? Please, what was I thinking? I mean you are as capitalist as it gets. Please accept my apology oh holy man of politics and spare me from your all powerful vitriol.

	25-09-2004 20:39									#161
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Well, there's an issue where kerry could make a huge contribution. I can see it before me: kerry wins the election and soon people will start to notice Heinz-products being shown in the background in the oval office and a few other places.

	25-09-2004 21:50									#162
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Yeah I can't wait to have Teresa, you are all scumbag's anyway, Heinz Kerry be our First "Lady."

	25-09-2004 21:56									#163
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Why does anyone care about the First Lady? Why she's relevent for anything is beyond me, yet she is. Like when Laura Bush goes around talking about how her husband fullfilled his duty. Like she would know. She hadn't met him yet.

	25-09-2004 21:58									#164
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight You're right,

You just don't get it.

	25-09-2004 22:07									#165
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As I said, Che, the only difference between a common liberal Democrat and a Communist is that the liberal Democrat wants to get elected. He therefore has to pretend that he is a capitalist. But, still, all they do is complain about corporations. They want to tax them, regulate them and then hopefully take them over completely. I have been listing to liberal Democrats say this kind of trash my entire life.

	25-09-2004 22:12									#166
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Ned, the Democrats are the same damn party as the Republicans. The are the party of big capital. The only differences between two are either minor tweaks on taxation, regulation, labor, etc. issues, and abortion. Abortion is the only real difference between the two wings of the capitalist party.

There are two ways you can manage a capitalist economy. The civilized way is to regulate it, to keep it from eating itself, to provide a safety net for those who are devored by the system. The other way is to hire part of the working class to surpress the rest of the working class. Both parties advocate a mix, the Dems a little more of the first, the Repubs, a little mor of the second.

The Democrats aren't even close to being social democrats. Hell, even the Democratic Socialists of America are close to finally giving up on them.



I have to wonder sometimes, if you aren't deliberately trying to be a characture of a right-winger.

	25-09-2004 22:15									#167
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I'm getting a headache from the radiation leaking out of the Nedaverse.

	25-09-2004 22:41									#168
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Che, you are speaking of a liberal Democrat I have never seen. Not one that I can recall has had anything to say nice about corporations which equates in this conversation with capitalism. They are against corporations and against capitalism.

You also seem to ignore my constant reference to "liberal" class warfare Democrats. Southern Democrats and moderates are excluded from this discussion.

	25-09-2004 22:46									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Not one that I can recall has had anything to say nice about corporations which equates in this conversation with capitalism.

As MtG pointed out, it doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. All of those liberal democrats still are bought and paid for by those same corporations that own the Republicans and the other Democrats. In any event, I've never heard any Democrat call for the nationalization of industry. You're too stuck on appearances and don't pay enough attention to the deep truth: both parties have their asses in the air for the corporations.

	26-09-2004 01:12									#170
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Damn it! Now I'm getting pretty tired of this crap about the democratic party being communists. I haven't really had the desire to say something about it as the debate is so lame that not even I want to sink to that level, but it has to end sometime.

You people that obviously doesn't have a clue, go and read a book about political science or something instead of constantly reperating your lame opinions. Why do you even bother at all? You clearly have no desire to ever get new perspectives or test your own narrowminded world views.

That for example Bill Clinton would be a communist is such a silly idea that I can't even begin to comprehent how you came up with it, let alone express it amoungst your fellow peers without them laughing at you. The domcratic party has been in power many times without even trying to establish a proletarian dictatorship, have it ever crossed your mind that just that alone might be an indication that what you're pulling out of your ass has nothing to do with reality?!

Stop wasting bandwith that's needed for more important things for the world, like porn.

	26-09-2004 02:10									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Similarities! = same

No sh*t. Thanks for destroying your own argument.

	26-09-2004 02:25									#172
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The democratic party today isn't the same party 40 years ago. So yes, they are pretty much communists now and they are just continuing to go downhill.

	26-09-2004 02:33									#173
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Oh no, I'm sooo pwned!

	26-09-2004 03:20									#174
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight The democratic party today isn't the same party 40 years ago. So yes, they are pretty much communists now and they are just continuing to go downhill.

Clinton was to the right of Richard Nixon. So was Nixon a commie!?!

	26-09-2004 03:30									#175
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Clinton wasn't to the right of anyone except maybe Kerry and that's not saying much.

	26-09-2004 03:58									#176
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Nixon
Clean Air Act
Clear Water Act
Environmental Protection Agency
Affirmative Action
Proposed a National minimum income

Clinton
NAFTA
Welfare Reform
Expanded the Death Penalty



The head of the Stealworkers (IIRC) called Clinton the most pro-business president since Hoover.

Are you a Bircher?

	26-09-2004 04:39									#177
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@ ML

	26-09-2004 11:15									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Damn it! Now I'm getting pretty tired of this crap about the democratic party being communists. I haven't really had the desire to say something about it as the debate is so lame that not even I want to sink to that level, but it has to end sometime. You people that obviously doesn't have a clue, go and read a book about political science or something instead of constantly reperating your lame opinions. Why do you even bother at all? You clearly have no desire to ever get new perspectives or test your own narrowminded world views. That for example Bill Clinton would be a communist is such a silly idea that I can't even begin to comprehent how you came up with it, let alone express it amoungst your fellow peers without them laughing at you. The domcratic party has been in power many times without even trying to establish a proletarian dictatorship, have it ever crossed your mind that just that alone might be an indication that what you're pulling out of your ass has nothing to do with reality?! Stop wasting bandwith that's needed for more important things for the world, like porn.

Hey K, I have made distinctions between so-called "liberal" democrats and people like Clinton who are moderates. Southern Democrats tend to be moderates which is why they are electable.

We really have never had a true Northern Liberal Democrat elected president, except perhaps for FDR. While I consider FDR a great president for what he did in stopping fascism in its tracks, he did try earlier in his presidency to end free market capitalism by regulating it. He also gave us extremely high progressive income taxes and estate taxes in order to bring America as close as he could to socialism.

This election is the first election since '32 where a Northern Liberal Democrat has a chance of being elected.

	26-09-2004 11:17									#179
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As I have noted before, Che, Nixon was your kind of president.

	26-09-2004 11:19									#180
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One more point about Nixon, he vigorously prosecuted the antitrust actions against AT&T and IBM.

Last edited by Ned on 26-09-2004 at 20:58