28-09-2004 07:52									#91
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

So we've established that Kid is a whiner who won't help himself out, but would rather sit in the corner and blame society. Yep, sounds like a leftist .

	28-09-2004 07:54									#92
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Because Reagan was right - I choose to be homeless.

	28-09-2004 07:58									#93
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Why did you get married and have a kid without first completing college and getting a good paying job?

quote: Are you telling me you're incapable of either moving, making more money or spending less money on non-essential things? Try day labor on the weekends to make some extra money. I've been doing it lately. Two Saturdays ago, the best paying job of the day was digging an irrigation ditch in saturated clayey soil. It was a suck-ass job, but I got paid, got a better workout than I would have at the gym, and I'm still managing to make sure I have positive cashflow each month, regardless of how slow things are in my main work. So don't whine to me about class warfare horseshit - I'm doing prole work too, and still moving ahead.

	28-09-2004 08:01									#94
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quote: I choose to be homeless.

You choose to whine and continue with luxeries rather than doing something about it!

	28-09-2004 08:20									#95
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Kid's problem isn't with capitalism. Pure capitalism, in fact, would fix it. Rather, it's with the sorry state or urban planning in the USA.

You'd think America, with one of the world's highest per capita GDP, the world's third largest land area, and preference of wood-framed housing (everyone else uses concrete) would have no problem giving everyone a roof.

However, US planning and zoning has messed things up by imposing artificial caps on how much housing can be built, and where it can be built. With this sort of scarcity, prices naturally rise.

	28-09-2004 08:20									#96
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quote: See now this is the reason I'm a communist. I like to talk about economics and other things, but this is really what gets me. People think that they are superior to people who are not as economically well off as them. To me, that is what has to go. You can never rid society of that prejudice in a capitalist system because it's the justification. It's the 800 pound fat lady on your couch that you want to pretend is a giant couch cushion.

Have you tried charging her rent?

	28-09-2004 09:35									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I choose to be homeless. You choose to whine and continue with luxeries rather than doing something about it!

Yeah. I like to eat now and be homeless latter. I admit to planning it all out to maximize my utility.

	28-09-2004 09:37									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Kid's problem isn't with capitalism. Pure capitalism, in fact, would fix it. Rather, it's with the sorry state or urban planning in the USA. You'd think America, with one of the world's highest per capita GDP, the world's third largest land area, and preference of wood-framed housing (everyone else uses concrete) would have no problem giving everyone a roof. However, US planning and zoning has messed things up by imposing artificial caps on how much housing can be built, and where it can be built. With this sort of scarcity, prices naturally rise.

Prices don't naturally rise. There is planning. Rent increases are planned.

	28-09-2004 09:40									#99
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Have you tried charging her rent?

Me? I don't own the place. The owner pretends she's not there though, so I don't expect her to pay any rent.

	28-09-2004 09:42									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Why did you get married and have a kid without first completing college and getting a good paying job?

Why is that your business? Do you tell other people when to get married and have children? I think you should mind your own business.

	28-09-2004 09:47									#101
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Gee whiz, I guess laziness is why people with full time jobs in Toronto are homeless.

	28-09-2004 10:12									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Prices don't naturally rise. There is planning. Rent increases are planned.

Since we live under a free market economy, prices rise when demand for housing exceeds supply. Supply is capped. So, when property owners notice that there are more renters than units, they charge more.

If you want to take an active role in reducing rent in your part of town, work to make it an undesirable place for people to live, and rents will drop.

	28-09-2004 10:15									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Since we live under a free market economy, prices rise when demand for housing exceeds supply. Supply is capped. So, when property owners notice that there are more renters than units, they charge more.

Living under a free market economy is completely planned.

quote: If you want to take an active role in reducing rent in your part of town, work to make it an undesirable place for people to live, and rents will drop.

I've got a better idea. I think you know what it is.

	28-09-2004 10:32									#104
	Got spare money?

quote: Yeah. I like to eat now and be homeless latter. I admit to planning it all out to maximize my utility.

From this thread I've found out that you lost $5000 gambling and live in an expensive area. You can't move farther out and drive a little more? You can't gamble less?

If you are super concerned about eating and not being homeless, why don't you do what MtG did (and he definetly was in a worse state than you in his youth) instead of wasting your time posting here?

	28-09-2004 10:36									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Yeah. I like to eat now and be homeless latter. I admit to planning it all out to maximize my utility. From this thread I've found out that you lost $5000 gambling and live in an expensive area. You can't move farther out and drive a little more? You can't gamble less? If you are super concerned about eating and not being homeless, why don't you do what MtG did (and he definetly was in a worse state than you in his youth) instead of wasting your time posting here?

I did not lose $5000, and I live in one of the crapiest shanties in Fresno. Holy Christ! How did you get that I live in an expensive house? Those are the haters. You can believe what they say if you want, but don't expect to come to a correct conclusion.

	28-09-2004 14:14									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious What responsibility is it of an individual when his or her rent increases?

In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

	28-09-2004 17:22									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

This one I don't so much disagree with.

Here's some responsibilities that I don't agree with that have been presented on this thread.

1) Move out of California.
2) Don't get married and have children.
3) Quit college.
4) Work a second and third job.
5) Quit your internet connection.
6) Move to an even more dilapitated shanty.

If individuals have to do these things to survive I don't call that individual personal responsibility. I call that lack of social responsibility. I call that class warfare when several posters here have called me lazy whinney and moronic for not doing those things when I shouldn't have to.

	28-09-2004 17:40									#108
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And they complain about being called fascists.

	28-09-2004 18:03									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

I completely agree.

Here is a simple proposal (well, actually not simple, masively ambitious, but simple to explain):

The government should guarantee 3 things:
Basic adequate housing for all (this emplies public transport as well to get anywhere)
Basic Healthcare for all
An Education up to college level
Nutrition for all.

Every individual would be entitled to a basic home or apartment, a basket of staple foods to live and basic healthcare (covering checkup, dentist checkups, basic occular care and so forth). everyone could work to have better than this, a better nicer home, more gadgets, toys, car, whatever- and the government would do nothing to provide anything beyond these things called basic needs. Everyone would be free to set up businesses to provide these extras, free to get rich and whatever, but again, the basics for each person need to be met.

So people are free to aquire capital and mess around, and in the end are even more free, because they are free from the crushing burden of lacking basic needs.

	28-09-2004 18:21									#110
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quote: However, US planning and zoning has messed things up by imposing artificial caps on how much housing can be built, and where it can be built. With this sort of scarcity, prices naturally rise.

This is true overall, but you would have to look at Kid's living area to see how much this has impacted him (or not, as I suspect). Also, simple things like building codes that mandate a certain general blueprint probably impact the situation more than planning and zoning.

	28-09-2004 18:30									#111
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This is true overall, but you would have to look at Kid's living area to see how much this has impacted him (or not, as I suspect). Also, simple things like building codes that mandate a certain general blueprint probably impact the situation more than planning and zoning.

You have to look at my living area? Man, you really have no idea do you?

	28-09-2004 18:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yeah, I can tranfer, but you always lose units. Sometimes a lot.

Even within the UCal system? Does the university have married or family housing?

	28-09-2004 18:37									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

Fully agree, I have long been a proponent for replacing our Welfare system of stipends and checks with a work for sustenance program.

Any and all Americans are guaranteed housing, clothing, and food in return for a 40 hours of community service (picking up trash, other community/government work).

Then if they want more they can get another job to earn spendible money they can do what they want with.

	28-09-2004 18:37									#114
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He didn't lose $5000 gambling, fellas. He started a thread where he contemplated taking $5000 (which he apparently had available) and using it to gamble & make money that way. The premise of the thread was "beating the system." He apparently never did that, so I assume he still has the 5 grand.

Anyway, in order to give any truely useful advice, we would have to know more about your situation, and I honestly don't think that's info you would/should give out to strangers (your income, your wife's income (if any),your rent, where you live, etc).

-Arrian

	28-09-2004 18:38									#115
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GF - I like that idea.

-Arrian

	28-09-2004 18:51									#116
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The problem as I see it in this thread is that Kid has the money, he just doesn't have the income. So he's getting nailed on finding a new place cuz he doesn't have the future prespects for paying rent.

Affordable housing is in a crisis situation for lower income people in the United States. It's not that there's a housing shortage. It's that there's a shortage of affordable housing. Unfortunately, in a free-ish market, supply and demand will dictate the price of housing, and since the government is not enforcing or creating affordable housing for the poor, the poor are getting screwed. Everywhere, low income housing is being gentrified.

Many poor families are having to double or triple up for housing, which can cause other sorts of problems, including having the county or state take your children away. Others live in areas that aren't safe for human habitation. Others live in cars or campgrounds.

People should not have to live like this. Kid shouldn't be forced to chose between finishing college and being homeless. A humane society doesn't force people to make that choice. Nor does it force one to have to forgoe doing homework in order to work.

Sadly, I've known plenty of people who were forced to quit school in order to pay rent. And they've never been able to go back to college. Not only does the individual lose out, but society also loses out, since the more educated a person is, the higher their income level and greater their contribution to society tends to be. But this is America, so **** society and **** myself if someone else's "personal responsibility" is somehow minimized.

	28-09-2004 18:54									#117
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That sysem GF proposes is essentially a feudal tax system- servcices granted for service to the Lord.

It is also ripe for abuse.

	28-09-2004 19:16									#118
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Shush, peasant! Now be quiet and prepare to be repressed!

	28-09-2004 19:22									#119
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Che,

It's difficult to know if you comments really apply to Kid's situation, because of course we don't know his exact situation (there are varying degrees of "poor" as I'm sure you know). Most of us in this thread just picked up on his general whininess and went from there.

-Arrian

	28-09-2004 19:26									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why is that your business? Do you tell other people when to get married and have children? I think you should mind your own business.

It is our business to tell you your are a an improvident fool to aquire a family to support (or other large expeses) before you can support them, and a whiney ass to complain about the economic cosquence of your bad choices and weakness, and that you deserve your poverty and misery.