23-03-2001 10:08									#61
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Mark,

I've replied to this question in the Maps Graphics thread. I have a Phalanx icon in the same style as my #7 and #8 horde unit.

Are you interested in it or shall we get the size tile agreed before I keep on working in the units?

	23-03-2001 05:13									#63
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Richard:

I think for a futuristic game it might be OK, but I find the box really jarring for a mostly-historical game. And it's too utilitarian and ugly even for me even with my limited aesthetic sense. I also think that at a minimum whatever power indicator we have Must be able to be shown for all units/TFs without incredibly screwing up the map. I think a field littered with 20 or so of those things would be extremely ugly... But it is certainly an innovative suggestion, and we can see what others think also.

Fiera:

I think the phalanx looks cool too! And I'm looking forward to seeing the comparison samples. Just in case, I actually an enlarged on my request in the other graphics thread, so if you didn't check it out please do so before you work out your sample. Yes, the next few months will be really fun!

	23-03-2001 05:15									#64
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Richard,

I'm replying here to your e-mail so that everyone may be able to read it.

I like the idea, at least graphically. It's very original, I hadn't seen such a system anywhere else. There's one thing I don't like so much, since it adds noise or confusion to the icon: the black corners of the status box. Wouldn't it be better if the status box was totally transparent (invisible)?

Here's a link to the pic Richard sent me for everybody to see:
http://www.geocities.com/fiera_com/graphics.html

[This message has been edited by Fiera (edited March 22, 2001).]

	23-03-2001 08:42									#66
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When I was looking at fiera's site I realized the thing I really don't like about the power circles, is how they cover so much of the map. However, if we could show them as rings (instead of solid circles, as in fiera's tile demos) I'd be much happier with that since it allows much more of the map to come through.

As for the status box, I'd have to say no, it doesn't seem like it would be too attractive all over the map, and I really wouldn't want to have to hover over several units just to see it.

BTW, Fiera, I like your horde (7 & 8), and phalanx graphics... they look great.

	23-03-2001 09:33									#68
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Wow. I've never seen such a swift and unanimous negative response.

So the box is out. What about the epoch marker and two-axis plan for displaying unit power? I think that it has some promise. It shows which power circle changes are due to battle losses and which are due to tech advancement. The bottom bar could also include veteran statis and unit experience as well. I like that a lot more than the power circles, which don't seem to scale up very well.

I definitely prefer the two smaller tile sizes. It seems that there is still a bit too much empty space in the 80x40, but that extra space might be needed by cavalry units. Based on those pictures of infantry units, I actually prefer the smallest size. I don't mind clutter on the screen, and prefer to see as much of the playing area as possible. Panning all over the place annoys me more than clutter. But larger units like cavalry or vehicles might require the medium size.

By the way, I like the new phalanx. The action-oriented style seems to be producing good results.
[This message has been edited by Richard Bruns (edited March 22, 2001).]

	23-03-2001 21:27									#69
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I have revised the plan and created a new demonstration. The isometric box and the movement bar are only put around the selected unit, while the others use the two-axis power display. I think that this looks better then the power circles.

I used the large tile size from the website, and put two of the opposing units in one tile. It would actually be possible to put four infantry units in one of the big tiles without overlap, since the iso box has a fourth of the area of the large tile.

Again, an e-mail will go to Fiera and Mark. I may want to make a website if this continues.

	24-03-2001 05:09									#70
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Richard:

Well, the new demo is better than before, but I still just don't like it. But we could make it, or something like it, available as an alternative and see how it and the Power Circles and whatever else we come up with fare in playtesting...

	24-03-2001 06:44									#71
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Richard, I still like the idea, and of course I think it's better now, but, you can't know which tribe does each unit belong to on your demo... Maybe you could use the epoch squeare for that?

	24-03-2001 07:08									#72
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I thought we were using alpha channels on the units to show the civ color. I assumed that this would be on the shields in ancient units.

	25-03-2001 06:21									#74
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I have created a few more demos of the small icons and their possible uses. Somehow our discussion of units migrated to the Map Graphics thread, so I'll use this opportunity to move the discussion back to this thread.

Previous Posts

My Examples

	26-03-2001 00:22									#75
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I just realized that a lot of my work is based on the old 93x47 tiles that we are not using any more. I'll have to redo many of the examples. I'll use 80x40 tiles from now on.

	26-03-2001 00:28									#76
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Hey Richard:

I don't think you need to go through all the effort to redo them. They're close to the right resolution, so unless you feel driven to, I'd just do anything new at the 80x40 res.

	26-03-2001 04:02									#77
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I have updated My website and added new examples, including a plan to display all of the TF components and status bars so they will not overlap in 40x80 tiles.

	21-05-2001 02:21									#78
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Fiera:

We could use graphics for archer and catapult if you have the time after doing the new terrain tiles. At least I think there's still time to get these into demo 5.

	21-05-2001 07:36									#79
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Sure, just a question... should the archer be an ancient warrior (like an Assyrian, FE), or rather an English Longbowman as the one in Civ2?

	21-05-2001 08:20									#80
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I'd prefer ancient to go with the others... but if its a big problem, do whatever you're comfortable with!

	26-05-2001 02:20									#81
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Hi Fiera:

I have a request. I would like to use the Clash Logo below for an avatar on Apolyton, but its too big. Could you try to shrink it by a factor of 2 down to 64x64? I tried it using some simple resizing algorithms, but it looked lousy. But I'm guessing your more advanced graphical art software could do a better job. Only bother if you think it could look fairly good...

Thanks!

Mark

	26-05-2001 06:14									#82
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How do you like this?

Maximum size for avatars is 64x64 so this one should work well.

Edit: I can make it higher and narrower (see my avatar) if you would like it better that way.

Attachment: clash_logo_64.gif
This has been downloaded 68 time(s).

Last edited by Fiera on 26-05-2001 at 08:34

	26-05-2001 07:24									#83
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Thanks Fiera! It looks great just as it is!

	26-05-2001 08:29									#84
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You're welcome, it only took me a minute, and I feel that you really needed to have the Clash Logo as your avatar. It looks just right.

	06-07-2001 00:03									#85
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Fiera, where are you when we need you?

The demo 5 is getting close, but there are only five of your really good units available - Horde, Phalanx, Light Cavalry, Chariot and Trireme.

It really needs a skirmisher (archer?) and a heavy cavalry.

Cheers

	06-07-2001 05:53									#86
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Sorry, guys!

As you have probably already guessed, I've been damn busy with my exams for this last month. The annoying thing is that I've failed to pass almost a half of them!

Well, anyways, I haven't had too much free time and thus I'm afraid I haven't got much to show you...

The archer unit is half-made only. Please tell me what you think of it at this stage. The ability to attach images will hopefully make my work easier.

PS: Thanks for the compliments, Gary. Also, do we now need heavey cavalry instead of a catapult? It's no big deal, I just haven't been able to find a good image of a catapult yet, so I haven't got anything.

PS2: The trireme isn't mine. It's Bernd Brossing's. Perhaps we could make use of it, but I'm afraid that it doesn't fit very well in the power circles.

Attachment: archer1.gif
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	06-07-2001 21:13									#87
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Hi Fiera! Sorry to hear about the finals

The archer so far looks good to me! I'm a little afraid he will blend in too much in brownish terrain, but that's my only worry.

	07-07-2001 00:22									#88
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Yes, but don't worry too much about that... I'll very probably use black opr a very dark brown for the bow in the end... It still lacks a lot of details, but I'm glad to hear you like the general look.

PS: What about the heavy cavalry? Is that what I finally have to try, or is the catapult? If heavy cavalry, shall I make an ancient unit again (ie: cataphract), or rather a medieval knight?

	07-07-2001 04:25									#89
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I don't have a firm opinion either way on heavy cav. vs. catapult, that's why I didn't say anything Whatever you guys think is right for next steps is ok by me.

BTW Gary was talking about roads and rivers in another thread. I propose that its perhaps more valuable to start working on these than to do further units. What do people think?

	07-07-2001 05:00									#90
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I think that cataphracts are really sort of super-heavy cavalry. What I had in mind was something more like Alexander the Great's Companion cavalry - unarmoured horses, but the rider has body armour. The Osprey Men-at-Arms, vol 137, Scytian Armies has some really nice examples.

Catapults had really very limited use, and only for sieges, so I would gice it a lesser priority.However I will try and dig out some pictures for you.

Cheers

Gary