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Moral Hazard
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of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:22
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Boshko saved it. Destroying evidence.
Last edited by Moral Hazard on 01-10-2004 at 09:31
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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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The gf says that Kerry looked "wise and strong" and Bush looked "stupid strong and very stubborn" and that both don't know the details of the Korean situation and are using it for politics for whatever its worth.
Since I'm lazy I'll do a Mr. Fun, here's my original post on the other thread:
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Bush just kept on pounding and pounding the talking points "wrong war" "mixed messages" "wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages""wrong war" "mixed messages" He did a good job of it if you like that sort of performance (although I wanted to throw something at him when he COMPLETELY dodged the first question in order to hit his talking points) but it was pretty boring.
Kerry was a bit all over the place and didn't counter Bush's main talking points hard enough. I think his best bit was the anecdote about De Gaulle and JFK about how America's credibility with the world has been damaged. I don't think that he did quite enough to pound home how much more difficult Bush's alientation of most of the world will make it for us to gather an alliance in the future or how much of America's credibility Bush has burned. So Kerry did more of a real debate, Bush did more of an advertising campaign but its a bit of a toss-up which is more effective since Kerry didn't pound some of his criticisms home.
Hmmm what else? Bush pissed me off when he claimed credit for the formation of the Department of Homeland Security when it happened despite his opposition to it, it seems that Bush likes claiming credit for things he originally opposed. Also the bit where he says he knows what Iraqi soliders are going through because he gets to sit in his comfy chair and real casualty lists what pretty laughable.
As far as the non-verbal BS that the press obsesses about, Kerry definately won. He was far better than Bush at remaining composed while the other person was talking and it really showed in the cut-away shots. Also he never spoke out of turn and Bush did serveral times in order to signal that he wanted his 30 seconds.
So a marginal victory for Kerry. Also keep in mind that as long as it was even relatively close, this is going to help Kerry in the polls since Bush was well in the lead in the polls on the issues they talked about.
So maybe:
Kerry B
Bush C+
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quote:
I thought Bush stayed on message and was forceful. He was a little too antsy at times.
Kerry got his shots in. He strayed into irrelevancies at times. |
Sounds a bit right
I think that Kerry will also do well in the post-debate debate. The media likes obsessing about BS that doesn't matter like body language, sighing and all that crap. Kerry definately beat Bush in that. He remained composed when Bush was talking and had much more control over his body language than Bush and didn't inturrupt Bush at all.
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And his justification: "I know the war in Iraq is hard-I sit and sign the orders!" |
Yeah that burned me up a bit.
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I thought that Bush did have Kerry on the defensive on his message on the war in Iraq, but Kerry answereed this in the end. |
He should have done more though. He should have gone after Bush on more Iraq specifics and offered more specifics besides blathering about summits.
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Bush was disciplined and stayed on message, and certainly didn't do horribly, but Kerry got out too many damning accusation which weren't fully rebutted that I think may stick in the minds of undecided voters. |
Right, Bush didn't do much in the way of specific rebuttal. If this was a formal debate Bush would've been destroyed, of course it isn't so this one issue doesn't hurt Bush all that much.
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Has anyone here had their mind changed by this exercise, or know someone who has? |
I'm much less likely to vote third party out of frustrated disgust now.
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bipolarbear
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of Persia and the Communist Party of Apolyton
Feb 2004
time: 22:22
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I think Bush was crushed in the debate. And thank god too, but the Republicans seem to be ignoring that fact, and trying to paint a much different picture of the imbecile.
Kerry had strong intelligent, well thought out, and well articulated arguments. Bush kept trying butt in, and ended up stagnating. I know that people do end up staling, and that it is completely normal to be nervous especially at such an important event and all of that, but he’s the President. Sure he isn’t as used to the cameras, because he has talked to the press the least of any President in our History, but I think he should have at least had his stuff more together.
The cutaway shots were pretty bad for his pr, they caught him at some really bad moments, and by comparison, they caught John Kerry smiling, and taking notes.
The worst part about the whole thing though, is that G.W. had no argument. He complained that John Kerry is sending mixed messages, a point that JK refuted multiple times throughout the debate.
And even worse was, how when good ol’ G.W. realized that he was making an ass out of himself by revisiting a refuted and tired argument, he returned to the even more annoying fallback argument that John Kerry flip flops on the issues.
John Kerry particularly PWNED that West Texas cracker by admitting to his “I voted for it before I voted against it” mistake, and admitting that he has changed his position to a stronger and more secure stance. This further revealed what a moron G.W. can be, when he kept running back to this argument long after it had been refuted. What happened to his new “we’ve turned the corner” slogan? John Kerry was pumping his “Help is on the way.” schpiel.
I began to feel kind of sorry for George Bush; he began to remind me of a small deer caught in the headlights. I could see that “Oh crap!” look that deer get just before you hit them in his eyes.
Overall, this was John Kerry’s night hands down. Ultimately I am surprised that George Bush wasn’t as prepared. I look forward to the final debate which IIRC will be about domestic issues, and not solely Iraq.
I really want to see what happens at the veep debate. More so, because I see Cheney as the kind of guy who spends him time slotting evil deeds with Lex Luthor, and the Joker in his darkened lair.
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by bipolarbear
I think Bush was crushed in the debate. And thank god too, but the Republicans seem to be ignoring that fact, and trying to paint a much different picture of the imbecile.
Kerry had strong intelligent, well thought out, and well articulated arguments. Bush kept trying butt in, and ended up stagnating. I know that people do end up staling, and that it is completely normal to be nervous especially at such an important event and all of that, but he’s the President. Sure he isn’t as used to the cameras, because he has talked to the press the least of any President in our History, but I think he should have at least had his stuff more together.
The cutaway shots were pretty bad for his pr, they caught him at some really bad moments, and by comparison, they caught John Kerry smiling, and taking notes.
The worst part about the whole thing though, is that G.W. had no argument. He complained that John Kerry is sending mixed messages, a point that JK refuted multiple times throughout the debate.
And even worse was, how when good ol’ G.W. realized that he was making an ass out of himself by revisiting a refuted and tired argument, he returned to the even more annoying fallback argument that John Kerry flip flops on the issues.
John Kerry particularly PWNED that West Texas cracker by admitting to his “I voted for it before I voted against it” mistake, and admitting that he has changed his position to a stronger and more secure stance. This further revealed what a moron G.W. can be, when he kept running back to this argument long after it had been refuted. What happened to his new “we’ve turned the corner” slogan? John Kerry was pumping his “Help is on the way.” schpiel.
I began to feel kind of sorry for George Bush; he began to remind me of a small deer caught in the headlights. I could see that “Oh crap!” look that deer get just before you hit them in his eyes.
Overall, this was John Kerry’s night hands down. Ultimately I am surprised that George Bush wasn’t as prepared. I look forward to the final debate which IIRC will be about domestic issues, and not solely Iraq.
I really want to see what happens at the veep debate. More so, because I see Cheney as the kind of guy who spends him time slotting evil deeds with Lex Luthor, and the Joker in his darkened lair. |
I think you're a little biased. Some news are reporting Bush won- as I've said before.
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01-10-2004 09:16
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