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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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Edit by Maniac:
Ambassadorial forum
password "warlock"
We have met the gaians
What do we want to do?
Obviously, get Ind Auto from them (they are running "wealth" so have it)
Here's what we have to offer:
 Attachment: 2140-gaian tradebait.jpg
This has been downloaded 84 time(s).
Last edited by Maniac on 06-10-2004 at 14:10
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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Firstly, do we want to Treaty or Pact with them?
(if the latter, let's not get dragged into a war with Yang until a time of our choosing)
Regardless, we do want Ind Auto, and have some good tradebait:
The 2 that would be most valuable to them (in my opinion) - and I'm suggesting that we trade only one of them for Ind Auto - would be:
Gene Splicing - gets the nut restrictions lifted, and is a building block for Ecol Eng and Fossil Fuels
or
Doctrine Flexibility - gives them seafaring capability, and lets them pod pop for IoD's and other goodies
but ....... as they already have Ind Auto, giving them Doc Flex brings up Doc Initiative as a future tech choice (with its SP, the MCC, which we want), so on balance I'd be in favour of trading Gene Splicing for Ind Auto (and both are B3 techs, so there is a certain logic to that)
thoughts?
G.
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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If we really want to pact with the Gaians, we should really make friends with them by getting Yang off their backs. That would give them insurance for future as well, what with our apparent weight in Yang's "mind". Adversely, we can use it as a Damocles' sword above their heads; if they mess with us, they risk having Yang back at them again.
Of course the AI, especially the Hive one, isn't renown for its integrity in keeping ceasefires, but by all means we should milk it for all its worth. I also favour tech trading, but I'll leave the details of that up to you to decide on.
I, however, *should* be shooting off a PM to the Gaians soon. I need to decide to whom, and what I'll say it in. I'll try a cordial approach and hope they'll appreciate it.
I should also open up dialogue on getting Yang off their backs and asking what they'd like to offer in return. They can tell what techs we are missing, but we shouldn't appear too desperate for anything. Then again, who *isn't* desperate for IndAuto in a demogame. Let's just hope they'll let it slip through their fingers.
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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Oh, what about The Phalanx? Does it serve our goals to let everyone know that we've met the Gaians? Does it serve the *Gaians'* interests - if they don't want it to leak but it won't hurt us, there's another bargaining chip in our pocket.
*******Zeiter Edit:*******
Concerning the Phalanx, I'll think about it...I may have to rework some of the stories, depending on the actual course of events in the game...
Also, I suggest we pursue a rather long-term diplomacy of cooperation and/or alliance with the Gaians. Like I've said before, if it has to come down to two teams left, I'd rather have to face the Gaians than the other two. This means, if we want to follow this course of diplomacy, then we should lay off most of the bribing/extortion/other bad stuff that could lead to bad relations, and instead just try for a straight-up diplomacy of equality and respect (at least for now... )
Last edited by Zeiter on 06-10-2004 at 03:27
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Zeiter
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Woohoo!!! Alright, how about this trade: NLmath and Doc:flex for IA. Yang already has NLmath and doc:flex, right? Well then, the Gaians will soon probe that off of him anyway, so we can give them those right now, and it will be of little importance. And they would probably very much like that trade because of the impact weapons.
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Snoddasmannen
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quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
I have posted the following in the Ambassadorial Forum:
While I will not be the official Ambassador to your goodselves (I am merely the Officer Commanding the Spartan Engineering Corps - but am also the Recording Officer to the Junta, responsible for ensuring the timely execution of Orders of the Day) I am pleased to advise you that we will pass on the 2141 turn with a Treaty of Friendship pre-accepted for your approval.
(...)
Major Googlie, Recording Officer to the Junta, The Spartan Federation |
With all due respect to our foreign office, this sounds like Brother Lal diplomacy to my spartan ears  If we were going to wait til next turn to trade techs then we might as well have made them sweat for a turn and not immediately accept the treaty.
Remember, they are probably afraid of us, we are a danger to them, being the most militaristic human faction, and we are also friendly with the Hive. This treaty might have been good leverage in tech trading, as would a potential pact with the Hive against the gaians. So there will no doubt be cheering in Gaia tonight.
Of course, I guess we were going to be friendly with the Gaians no matter what, I'm just saying we might have had a chance to use our dodgy reputation to get a favourable trade. Maybe we should try to use it next time.
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Zeiter
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For the others, the good cop-bad cop routine definitely sounds great. But with the Gaians, if we are trying to establish long term cooperation with them (as I suggest) then I'd just play good cop with them.
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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So, how about this:
quote:
We have observed that your faction is at war with another faction, the Human Hive. The Federation has a certain amount of weight in the ears of the Chairman, and I could be able to persuade him to call off his vendetta. Naturally, he will demand some appeasing, in the form of lots, and lots, and LOTS of food - as you might have read from The Phalanx, he isn't the thinnest of gentlemen. To produce all that food we require Industrial Automation. Of course this trade is a bit off balance, so we are also willing to provide you with a Level 1 technology to help with your defence, such as Applied Physics or Doctrine: Mobility. |
AFAIK I'm not giving anything away, they can find out what they have that we don't easily, and it ought to be obvious that the *Spartans* have AppPhys.
This of course is an initial suggestion, I fully expect them to want for something more. That's where the little trinkets like commlinks and maps come to play.
Last edited by Kassiopeia on 06-10-2004 at 20:22
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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Okay, and then there's this:
quote:
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.
Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly over these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent. |
Thoughts? Comments?
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Snoddasmannen
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quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Okay, and then there's this:
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.
Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly over these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent.
Thoughts? Comments? |
I like this rhetoric very much. Forceful and slightly non-commital is good. We don't want them to think they have us under control.
Maybe we should even make them think we are considering to pact with the Hive ... You could hook something like that to your ending paragraph about the extension after ten years. Something along the lines that we could find other factions in the area who are willing to be more cooperative.
The idea of good cop / bad cop is hilarious That would be really memorable for us who are playing them and the factions encountering us. I'm just not sure how we can pull it off 
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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Glad to hear you like my approach. I modified it with your suggestion, which I like as well, to this:
quote:
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.
Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.
The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a ten year term with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, once you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of your friends. |
The last line I robbed off from a foreigner describing Finns as friends - hard to make friends with, but once you do, there's no getting rid of them. The pact also puts them into a bind with our tech trade - it'd help them a lot if we agreed to get the Hive off their backs, so that if we end up in a pact with them, WE won't get any pressure from Yang to attack the Gaians.
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KrysiasKrusader
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Commander of Corazon's Own Elite Guard
Apr 2002
time: 00:21
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Below in italics are my (ever so humble) suggestions to ammends...
--------------------------------------------------------------
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Senior Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between both our factions. I am personally delighted to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.
Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, although, with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of eight Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly during this interval, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.
The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a (I deleted the amount of time, as this is confidential data...) term with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, should you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of friends.
--------------------------------------------------
I love all the diplomacy, and haggling. But let us not let it get in the way of actually making a deal. We already lost an opportunity last turn. Should it have to go several turns before we can make a deal, then let's forget this.
Someone, should be negotiating immediately for a 3 - 5 way technology transfer between our factions. Including no trade to other faction clauses, perhaps coordinated research paths, intent of standings with the other factions, etc., etc.
We have an opportunity here. Let's not let it slip out of our grasp.
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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I already have a draft for a tech trade up there. We have to be quick, but we mustn't hurry by throwing up a proposal we'll know they won't drag on, because that proposal would have to involve us giving away more than we should. Negotiating just simply needs time.
Co-ordinated research paths and no trade clauses sound good enough, I'll be sure to add them along. But we can't always reveal what we are researching, that's a bit of information the other side *won't* be able to tell by just messing with the contact screen.
As to your amendment, how about this:
quote:
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief (Why Senior? Both imply that there are several? I find Chief more Spartan.) Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between both our factions. I am personally delighted (this is just icing on the cake, why not) to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.
Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, although, (I can't see a nuance difference between "if" and "although" here, can you elaborate? I do find "if" more impolite in a certain way) with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten (I like things that are divisible by five myself; I think more than eight might make them a bit more receptible?) Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is (removed the "deemed", gives it a more stern tone) trustworthy and friendly during this interval, the Treaty will be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.
The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a term (true, we need not specify the term) with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, should you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of your friends. |
Of course, if we start to nitpick over every word and phrase, diplomacy certainly won't be going as swiftly as you'd like 
EDIT: "Lady Skye" is an actual member on the boards, some Gaian has registered the user and is using it to talk to us. I think addressing "it" is prudent.
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05-10-2004 17:43
All for the benefit of the team of course! 
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