07-10-2004 21:58									#61
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In the Embassy, Choas Lemma writes:

quote: extracted from Sparta-Gaian Embassy files In your next turn, we'd like you to move your rover in such a way that our mindworm can head in a westerly direction, given ZoC restrictions

How about replying that we'd like them to drop their mindworm 1 tile south into the forest so that our rover can take the river home eastwards - and showing a little of our good faith by sending them a screenshot of the situation showing the Hive former and the scout blocking our passage in any other direction (see pic below)

(Or maybe we can just give their co-ordinates and say that we'll exchange a screenshot of the vicinity we've explored - ie the seventy square tiles around our rover - in exchange for a similar screenie of the seventy or so square tiles southwest of the Hive scout - the direction that their mindworm - or a scout patrol that captured it - must have travelled)

thoughts??


EDIT: on looking at the pic we can also move our rover 1 tile north to allow the mindworm to scoot due west to repair and upgrade lifecycle at the Monolith

	07-10-2004 23:44									#62
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at the limited map exchange. You can probably set this up with Chaos, Googlie?

	08-10-2004 00:26									#63
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I posted this in the Embassy:

*************************************************

Our Rover is somewhat limited in its movements due to the presence nearby of Hive units. (They have a former at 37:47 and a scout unit at 37:53). We might be able to move 1 tile north, but there is a Hive base (The Leaders' Horde) at 43:45 that will block us moving any further out of your way. However this might allow your mindworm access to the monolith at 38:50 for healing. It would be simpler for your mindworm to move 1 tile south into that forest tile to allow our rover to follow the river east, but if you have already moved (or hit spacebar) this turn for the mmindworm then we'll move our rover north next turn to clear the way for you to reach the monolith (by going due west 1 tile into the fungus and northwest 1 tile to the monolith)

We would be pleased to exchange partial screenshots with you - the 70 or so square tiles surrounding our rover and to its east - in exchange for a similar screenie from you of the 50 or so square-tiled cone-shaped area covering approximately 34:52 to 36:54 at its northern end to 39:42 to 36:68 at its southern arc (where we are assuming your mindworm - or a scout that captured it - travelled from)

From this exchange you'll see some opportunities for possible native wildlife capture and Hive base harrassment.

Are you interested?

Major Googlie (Commander, Covert Operations, Sparta Federation)


*************************************************

	08-10-2004 01:23									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Is it worth asking them if they have the Angels' commlink?

Hmm - here's a nugget I found in the PBEM turns forum (my bolding):

*************************************************
Ouro_827
Prince
Alaska
Feb 2004
time: 12:19

_________________
Proud Gaian Founder's Council Member!
Ambassador to the Data Angels

Walk With Planet!

*************************************************

So it looks like they have, in fact, already met (maybe even pacted??

G.

	08-10-2004 01:34									#65
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Holy crap, well spotted. Most disconcerting, this is.

	08-10-2004 02:42									#66
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Hmmm, pacted? I hope not. That means our good cop/bad cop diplomacy will be limited with the Data Angels while they are pacted with the Gaians. We'll see.

Excellent 2 for 2 proposal! And the map proposal is a great idea too.

	08-10-2004 02:59									#67
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I see that they posted the turn (at 2:43) - I trust that right now they are busy replying to us with acceptance speeches

	08-10-2004 03:39									#68
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Kass ;

Just as a point of interest - are all the negotiations being conducted thru the Aimoo forum, or are you and Illuminatus engaging in an exchange of e-mails?

(I would have thought by now that they'd have at least posted in the exchange forum whether they had accepted the pre-authorized Treaty or not, let alone the tech trades and partial map-exchanges))

	08-10-2004 04:17									#69
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Perhaps they want to make us sweat a little

	08-10-2004 04:55									#70
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Slow progress in the talks...

:groan: + :concern:

	08-10-2004 05:56									#71
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Well the turn will be with us soon enough - I see that the Angels have already passed it on to Morgan (so there obviously isn't much debate among the Angels re influencing Gaian-Sparta talks - assuming they knew of them)

This suggests that the gaians and Angels are not pacted, as I think they'd (the Angels) need more time to execute trades with the Gaians - or at least poll their members on them.

	08-10-2004 08:51									#72
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No email exchanges, the only communiques we trade are in the diplomacy forum.

	08-10-2004 09:55									#73
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It's nice they have Ind. Auto. But really what can the Gaians do for us? I'd rather pact with a technoologically superior nation. But as I've said before, I wouldn't want to burn our bridges too early. Other human nations may not want to team up in any way. we may have to take what we can get.

	08-10-2004 11:29									#74
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Ah, but a technologically superior faction is more unlikely to pact with an inferior nation. The Gaians are good enough, and the main goal here is to get IndAuto ASAP. We can re-evaluate the situation as needed thanks to our temporarity clause of the Treaty of Friendship.

	08-10-2004 12:05									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia No email exchanges, the only communiques we trade are in the diplomacy forum.

Where are the diplomacy forums? There's not much happening in the Meeting Room at aimoo so you aren't referring to that right? Why are there two seperate forums?

	08-10-2004 12:34									#76
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I am referring to just that, the Aimoo meeting room. Yes, it's not much at the moment. There is only one forum for diplomacy with the Gaians.

	08-10-2004 14:39									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Is it worth asking them if they have the Angels' commlink? And if they'd be willing to swap it for Lal's (assuming my theory of how Buster has set up the factions is correct, they won't have been able to pass thru the Angels to get to Lal yet.) But I'm sure that by now the Gaians have met the Angels - or vice versa As long as we hold on to Zak's (and don't give Lal's to Yang) we can hold off Yang calling elections as long as we deem strategically beneficial to us (to act as the honest broker in a few deals)

If we gave Lal's frequency to Gaia, wouldn't there be the risk (if Gaia and Hive somehow signed a treaty) that Gaia gives Yang Lal's frequency, and thus that Yang can call the council?

Also if we give Gaia access to Lal (and thus automatically also Zak - they just need to buy the frequency at Lal's for 25c), given enough money they'll have access to all those techs we currently have a trade monopoly on: DocMob/Flex, AppPhys; NonlMath, Gene Splicing...

quote: Proud Gaian Founder's Council Member! Ambassador to the Data Angels

A possibility, perhaps wishful thinking I don't know, is that they haven't met the Angels yet, but that they just gave every Gaian some neat title right at the start of the game, even if they hadn't yet met the related faction. Ouro_827 has been having that signature for quite some time already.

	08-10-2004 14:58									#78
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quote: A possibility, perhaps wishful thinking I don't know, is that they haven't met the Angels yet, but that they just gave every Gaian some neat title right at the start of the game, even if they hadn't yet met the related faction. Ouro_827 has been having that signature for quite some time already.

Ah, yes, that thought did cross my mind... I find it a bit far-fetched, but not unlikely. After all, we already have a thread for Sparta-Morgan relations too.

	08-10-2004 15:20									#79
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Unfortunately, looks like that theory is out of the window. Lord Illuminatus mentioned (the Gaians accepted the Treaty in its temporary form, btw ) that they are in the midst of electing an ambassador to Sparta. (This does pose an interesting question of protocol - are we facing dishonour if the highest ranking diplomat must deal with a "lowly" ambassador?) If they are doing that only just now after initial contact, certainly they've already met the Data Angels a good while ago?

No word on the other trades, I suppose they're still voting.

I'm just getting a chilling feeling that the other three have been in contact and working together for quite some while now. Perhaps the Gaians have even received IndAuto from the Morganites. (But then I'd find a no-trade clause highly likely with such a prestigious trade - and I find it unlikely the Gaians would be willing to outright break it so early on.)

	08-10-2004 18:38									#80
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I don't see how the gaians have met Morgan. The latter only got flex a turn or 2 ago, and the Gaians still don't have it. My reading of the map is that they are a couple of continents apart, so unless one of them got the other's from Yang, (and remember, the AI doesn't volunteer another human player's commlinks in trade - they have to be asked for it), I don't reckon they've yet met (Gaians and Morgan, that is)

I do believe that the Gaians have met the Angels, and I think that they are neighbours (the Angels lying , IMO, between the Gaians - southwest quadrant of the map - and the PK's - southeast quadrant - ie, Angels habitate the south center)

	08-10-2004 18:43									#81
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quote: I'm just getting a chilling feeling that the other three have been in contact and working together for quite some while now.

Remember several Morganites have made public comments such as "The game will hopefully become more interesting after the human factions have met each other". This seems to indicate that at least the Morganites have not yet met other human factions.

	08-10-2004 18:52									#82
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Hey, the fact that it's a chilling feelng means it's not based on rational conclusions but irrational assumptions.

	08-10-2004 19:16									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I don't see how the Gaians have met Morgan.

But yet they do have each other's commlink (it doesn't show as a trade item when we contact Morgan (see my possible booboo thread)

(Same with the Angels - they too have met the Gaians, as we can't offer the Gaians commlink to them as a trade item)

	08-10-2004 19:22									#84
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ah damn

Edit: I just realized something. IIRC we seem to have forgotten to add a no-trade clause to our tech deal. Is important if we want to get a few other goodies out of selling Gene Splicing.

	08-10-2004 19:42									#85
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I agree. Perhaps Kass should add a post to the Embassy tech trading thread along the lines of:

*************************************************

The Junta has insisted on the following agreement:

Trade Protocols:

• Tech Levels: - The principle is established that tech-level trades (eg a level 3 for a level 3) need no add-ons for offer or acceptance by either party (subject to below)
  
• Embargo on third party onward trading: - Onward trading (to any third party, human or AI) is prohibited by both Sparta and Gaia for a 20 year period following such trade exchange (subject to variance by mutual agreement between Sparta and Gaia)

	08-10-2004 20:42									#86
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Ack! Good point there. I added the clauses to the tech trade thread, let's just hope the Gaians won't have to redo their polls or anything.

	08-10-2004 20:55									#87
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I actually like it, as it's quite devious.

Here's my surmising:

The Gaians got Ind Auto from Morgan, with a "no trade" clause.

When we offered them Gene Splicing for it, the delay has been that they had to go back to Morgan to 1) get permission to onward trade it, and 2) extract something else from Morgan in exchange for GS

If they come back and nix the trade, we'll know that this is the case

	08-10-2004 21:03									#88
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We'll be without our trade, but then, they'll be without their GS. That would explain the delay, yes. Most intriguing. Maybe I should give them a little prod if they keep dragging their feet. I did try to put it as sternly as possible that the trade is no go if they do not want to adhere to our rules.

	08-10-2004 21:11									#89
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Naw - I'f I'm right about where Morgan is, we can get a counter offer to/from them for ind Auto and Gene Splicing, and then the Gaians would be USCWAP

	08-10-2004 21:13									#90
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The Morganites might not be as receptible to our trade as the Gaians, who could use it to cement a position as a sort of brokering office between us and the Morgans. They'd need hab complexes and stuff to have any use out of GS anyway, would they not?