13-10-2004 00:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie What do we plan to say to them?

I would immediately open with something like:

We would very much like to cooperate with the Data Angels. We have a standard policy of non-interference with the other surviving factions. However...
Our intelligence suggests that this is not reciprocated by the Data Angels.
It has come to our attention that your faction and at least another, have been working towards the detriment of the rest of the survivng factions. This; by exchanging technology and information.
The Spartan Junta views such dealings with great suspicion, as we are not involved, nor can discern if this will leave us behind in the technological race.
Unless your position towards the rest of us, and dealings with the others, become immediately clear, there is little hope of garnering our trust.


This is a very rough draft (I still have a headache today). But it shows that we are aware of certain things without giving away too much information. It also sets a tone that we don't want to muck around diplomatically. Throw the ball in their court, and see how fast they return it.

We should approach them from a position of superiority (even if they think we're not), or at least, make them believe that we believe we are in a position of superiority.

Again; that's just an idea and a rough draft. It should be ammended more eloquently. I'm just throwing out my idea.

	16-10-2004 03:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader It has come to our attention that your faction and at least another, have been working towards the detriment of the rest of the survivng factions. This; by exchanging technology and information. The Spartan Junta views such dealings with great suspicion, as we are not involved, nor can discern if this will leave us behind in the technological race. Unless your position towards the rest of us, and dealings with the others, become immediately clear, there is little hope of garnering our trust.

The problem with this is that neither they nor the Gaians have met anyone else yet (until we got R-112 caught in the dimensional rift that teleported it south of Yang we still wouldn't have met).

So it's a bit strong to berate them for not sharing tech with other factions when they can't

But maybe along the lines of (not the suggested exact words):

"We know that you've been cosy with another faction that you've met - we expect no less"

But I think that there'll be little left to get from them in trade after we steal from Zak and trade with Morgan and the Gaians (maybe we can "get all excited " about getting Industrial Economics from them?)

Of course, I could be wrong ..........................

	16-10-2004 03:11									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie But I think that there'll be little left to get from them in trade after we steal from Zak and trade with Morgan and the Gaians

Indeed. About all that's left that we can get from other factions is credits, and I doubt they have enough for all those juicy techs we have.

	16-10-2004 03:28									#34
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Indeed, I see no particular need for Angel co-operation, since there is little benefit we can actually derive from it. The Junta, as it is, is pretty much missing a pro-Angel faction, for probably a good reason. We must try to keep their relations to the other humans as cold as possible, though, lest they try to build an alliance of their own that might hamper our own plans.

	16-10-2004 03:40									#35
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Who knows with Googlie suspecting the Angels are aiming for HEC, we could get some juicy tech after all?

Should we ask the Gaians and Angels what they are currently researching? (The reason for asking would of course only be because we want to know if they have anything useful to trade, and not because we'd want to find out if they're aiming for DAP. )

	16-10-2004 05:09									#36
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We can try.

It fell on deaf ears last time we asked (Morgan, IIRC)

we need infiltration ........... we need Navy Seals

	17-10-2004 17:50									#37
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I see I was too quick to write-off the Gaians "love of the filthy lucre" (They sold both ours and the Angels' commlinks to each other"

The Angels have contacted us

quote: Received in a PM from GeoModder Greetings, members of the Spartan faction, If necessary, my apologies for barging in on your private com channels like this. It is purely for efficiency reasons, and to cut some time of perhaps long conversations. I doubt the Spartan Command structure will object to either reason. To introduce myself: I am InfoTrader GeoModder of the Data Angels and at the moment the liason for talkings with other factions on Planet. Both our factions survided Planetfall and thrived sofar, thus for better or worse we have to get along. We of the Angels prefer to keep things on a friendly basis and perhaps even trade interesting hardware and information on eachother. Time will tell of course. Time to end this introduction, feel free to drop a message back with perhaps some info on how the Spartans see this contact and to create an efficient diplomacy channel with the right person on the other side. IT GeoModder

I have replied with the following message:

quote: Contents of a PM from Googlie to GeoModder To: InfoTrader GeoModder From: Lt. Colonel Googlie We are pleased to finally have contact with the Data Angels Although not the spokesofficer of the Sparta Federation that you will be customarily dealing with (that honour is accorded to our Officer Commanding Diplomacy, Major Kassiopeia) I have taken the liberty of replying in order to direct your attention to a Virtual Embassy we established in anticipation of this historic occasion. It's url can be found here: http://messageboard618350.aimoo.com and its password is: jazzfest I do drop in there from time to time, and look forward to our virtual meeting there in the near future. Lt. Colonel Googlie

Now we can get rolling !!

	17-10-2004 18:00									#38
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And I have posted the following in our Virtual Embassy:

quote: Posted by Googlie in the Virtual Embassy To all members of the Data Angels faction: Welcome to the Angels-Sparta Virtual Embassy On behalf of my fellow Officers of the Junta I look forward to many decades of fruitful commerce and co-operation as our two factions, together, thrive and prosper on this alien Planet Major Kassiopeia is our accredited Commanding Officer, Diplomacy, and will be calling in to the Embassy shortly. Meanwhile, again, welcome. Lt. Colonel Googlie

	17-10-2004 18:23									#39
	Remove this text

Shall we mention the Gaians have been "cheating" us both by selling our commlinks to each other at the same time?

Should we mention we have heard "rumours" they are researching HEC, and that we might be interested in this?

	17-10-2004 19:34									#40
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I'd maybe not go so far as levelling the "C" allegation (although I do realize you're not using it in the context of an in-game cheat)

Maybe "shortchanging" us might be more diplomatic?

(And now I don't feel nearly so bad for getting the Ind Auto no-trade embargo lifted for a measly 50 ec's)

And, yes, I'd say something along the lines of:

"There are some of our Junta Officres who believe that you might currently be researching - or indeed might already have researched - High Energy Chemistry. If so, we would be interested in acquiring it through trade, and we have some technologies to offer that we believe you will be anxious to obtain"

(btw, are we going to let all these posts stay as-is for posterity to read - post game, that is - or are we going to "sanitize" them at some point in time through selective edits?)

	17-10-2004 21:06									#41
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Do we want a temporary treaty with them? I'd imagine so. I'll also suggest a trade for HEC, unless someone objects. Just to get us rolling with them. I'd also query them, if the Gaians sold them our commlink too. To get a little friction between them and the treehuggers.

	17-10-2004 21:26									#42
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(I just e-mailed KK to keep him posted on events unfolding)

Last edited by Googlie on 17-10-2004 at 21:37

	17-10-2004 22:19									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Shall we mention the Gaians have been "cheating" us both by selling our commlinks to each other at the same time?

That's horrible diplomacy by the Gaians don't you think? Did we actually buy the commlink from them or did the deal fall through?

	17-10-2004 23:07									#44
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we bought it [added the 25 ec's for it to the 50 we owed them for lifting the Ind Auto trade embargo (to the AI)]

I put the 75 ec's in the diplo window with "pre-accept" activated (they had the Angels commlink on the other side) so when they hit "accept" the deal would go through

The fact that the Angels have contacted us means that they have aquired our commlink (but not by the Gaians giving us theirs - I tested that in a scenario sim) which means that they have either traded - or sold - ours to them for something of value

And I can't feel too peeved, 'cos we'd have done the same thing in a flash

	18-10-2004 01:18									#45
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Hmm - I guess the Angels are in no rush to deal

They have played and passed on the turn to Morgan, and have posted a reply in the Embassy confirming that indeed they "traded valuable considerations" to the Gaians for our commlink.

They also ask why we conclude that they have HEC

I'm not sure that we conclude that they do, but rather that they are researching it right now.

In 2141 they got Applied Physics (a prereq for HEC), so unless they were close to getting Applied Physics, but stole it from Yang and immediately switched to HEC, they won't have it yet.

(And Yang hasn't declared vendetta on them, so I doubt he's been probed)

	19-10-2004 00:04									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (btw, are we going to let all these posts stay as-is for posterity to read - post game, that is - or are we going to "sanitize" them at some point in time through selective edits?)

That's been on my mind the whole time I've become part of the demo game.

I may very well blank out some of my personal PBEM secrets. Though, as of yet, I'm not sure...

	19-10-2004 00:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - I guess the Angels are in no rush to deal

Could very well be cause they're in tight with the tree huggers.

	19-10-2004 05:19									#48
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So - do I take it as regards the Angels, we just maintain a posture of stony indifference to them?

As in In the big picture they don't matter a damn?

(OK by me if that is our position)

	19-10-2004 05:28									#49
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Yea sure. I'm for giving them the cold shoulder.

In other news...

Shouldn't we correct the descrepency in this embassy?
Geo-Modder is right. I can't see another post in the technology category either.

(I tried to post an apology for not paying attention to him, but it says I'm not a registered member.)

	19-10-2004 05:29									#50
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I just sent Geo a PM explaining it was a mistake because I was posting very, very tired. (As I am right now, waiting a confirmation on my drafts in that other thread)

	19-10-2004 05:44									#51
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader (I tried to post an apology for not paying attention to him, but it says I'm not a registered member.)

Hmm - I thought I had set them all as 'Normal Members"

I've changed it to Normal and Registered (but we may want to keep the registered status - KK, just hit your profile button and scroll right down to the bottom of the page - there should be a "I am not ....." button to click on to change (You're registered in the gaian embassy, so you must have done it there)

	19-10-2004 07:05									#52
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I can now post. I didn't touch nothing. So you must have fixed it with whatever you did, Googlie.

	20-10-2004 05:23									#53
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New diplo message from them - what do we want for Flex?

	20-10-2004 05:53									#54
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I've suggested elsewhere

Industrial Economics straight up for Doc Flex

	20-10-2004 06:37									#55
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I've responded in the Embassy to say that the Junta is in session and is considering their request for Doc Flex

	20-10-2004 07:00									#56
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*groan*

I sure wish we had a better idea of the other three human factions "intent" on how the game will be developing...

How about IE for DocF AND the first faction to reach the next technology that either of these were a pre-requisit for must give to the other?

	20-10-2004 07:35									#57
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Hmm - not sure that would work

Ind Econ leads to Ind Auto (we both have) and to Env Econ (we've gotta be a lot closer to that EE than they are)

Doc Flex leads to Doc Init, Doc Air and Adaptive Doc

I think we'd be giving them Doc Init in 6 years that way

	20-10-2004 08:06									#58
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Hmm...

Did I make a mistake?

I'll verify what I was thinking...

	20-10-2004 08:26									#59
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Oookieee......

I now see what's wrong.


I was saying DocFlex but - was thinking DocIni.


Scratch that previous proposal (no use even explaining my idea with DocIni, cause we're currently researching it).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason I'm not that big on a straight up deal, is cause I don't want to see any Angel probe foils in the water, nor do I want them to pact when they've made contact by toodling a boat somewhere.

Lemme think...

	20-10-2004 08:54									#60
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Okay, How about this:

Ind Econ for Doc Flex, and they give us 12 e.c's whenever they complete a probe foil.