17-01-2005 23:01									#481
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Nice going Kassi

quote: I am glad that the Hunter was not disbanded. That trully would have been using excessive force on our part. We did not wish to destroy your ship, merely we wanted to remove it as a threat. The ship is still intact. It still can be of use to you for the purpose you intended (floating early warning system).

Argh
This rhetoric is so frustrating! My only hope is that they are even more frustrated by ours

	17-01-2005 23:23									#482
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Frustration is good, in that it achieves nothing, which means that nothing progresses or happens. Perfect.

	18-01-2005 00:21									#483
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Apparently they did think that we knew exactly where the Gator was, when issuing the doctrine. Judging by this, we could (in their eyes) pursue it, even after it left the 8-tiles zone. Talk about efficiently sowing paranoia.

By the way, they now indirectly admitted going inside the 8-tiles radius after we issued the Modo Doctrine.

	18-01-2005 03:43									#484
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Frustration is good, in that it achieves nothing, which means that nothing progresses or happens. Perfect.

Yes, good thinking
In fact you could even point out that some members in the Junta are getting frustrated that they are not responding to our counter-offers but are simply repeating the same thing over and over again. In fact, we have good reason to question their interest in peace at all

(not that I would type that last bit though - it'll get them thinking )

	18-01-2005 05:30									#485
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Hmmm - so Morgan currently have the turn. we can expect it in a day or so

D-Day draws nigh!!!

	19-01-2005 01:56									#486
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What do you guys think, how about we post something in the embassy before the Morgan turn is up, in the interest of credibility. It shows at least a bit of initiative

	19-01-2005 02:04									#487
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Something about the lump sum of credits again. And something along the lines of "AHA, so you admit your Gator was inside Sparta-controlled territory." Perhaps make it look like we need those credits badly. Looking a bit desperate (but just a bit) might make them feel safer.

Last edited by Modo44 on 19-01-2005 at 02:42

	19-01-2005 23:48									#488
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Yup, I think the line is getting too loose by now - message posted as per the general sentiment expressed in this thread (I do not see it necessary to seek Junta approval considering that this is just a stalling operation, not a diplomatical negotiation per se ).

	20-01-2005 00:33									#489
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So now I'm chief of naval intelligence, huh? Good one.

	20-01-2005 00:36									#490
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I was going to put "Chief of Navy", but "naval intelligence" sounded somehow apropos.

	20-01-2005 00:54									#491
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Good going Kass

I was thinking maybe you could sneak in the war with the Hive in the discussion. It will make them think that we are tied down for sure, and in no position to launch a raid. Especially with our great theatrics of leaving forces within Uni base radius heading west

	20-01-2005 00:58									#492
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Good going Kass I was thinking maybe you could sneak in the war with the Hive in the discussion. It will make them think that we are tied down for sure, and in no position to launch a raid. Especially with our great theatrics of leaving forces within Uni base radius heading west

EXCELLENT thinking there!

I added after

We are eagerly waiting for a proper suggestion from the Corporation as to what sort of recompensation the Corporation is willing to part ways with in the interest of ending this needless vendetta. The lack of trade is hurting us as much as it's hurting you, trust me.

this:

Even more so now when the Human Hive has decided to wage an aggressive vendetta against us, as your intel has probably let you already know.

	20-01-2005 06:01									#493
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

They've offered to re-instate the treaty - with an 8 ec credit

I vote we demand payment in full - no more hostage to their diplomacy

Attachment: 2156-peaceoffer.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	20-01-2005 06:20									#494
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I'm reckoning that Morgan stole HEC from Zakl, causing vendetta (I don't remember Zak offering to join us in vendetta against Morgan)

Attachment: 2156 - zak diplostance.jpg
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

	20-01-2005 06:26									#495
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Hmm - maybe they got it from lal, with whom they now are Treatied:

Attachment: 2156 - morgan diplostatus.jpg
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

	20-01-2005 14:05									#496
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I vote we demand payment in full - no more hostage to their diplomacy

That's what has been posted in the embassy the other day. They didn't have time to respond, and take action, so the turn probably went ot with their previous proposal. We'll see what they come up with this time.

	20-01-2005 16:27									#497
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8 energy is ludicrous even if we *were* seriously considering peace.

	20-01-2005 18:50									#498
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - maybe they got it from lal, with whom they now are Treatied:

Hmm, if that would be the case, perhaps we should consider asking Lal to declare war on Morgan, when we have some more credits. IIRC 75c was his price right? (Though perhaps it'll have risen now they're treatied. )

	20-01-2005 19:07									#499
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I'll do the parrallel diplo-thinggy ..........................

...................... he's upped his price to 150 ec's

	21-01-2005 11:32									#500
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Dangit! Morgan has offered us the Hunter back.

quote: Good, let's get to work. I'll need to review the archives to see how much were were paying per year on the tech purchases. Please help me out here. I see no problem with restarting the cash flow. As to the control of the Hunter we have no problem with returning it to a Spartan port and Spartan control. We will need coordinates of where to take it. Additionally, we have no problem with giving you screenshots from the Hunter. As to the Modo Doctraine and Yodo Doctraine I understand: That both or factions need breathing space to feel secure. That Morgan requires more breathing space (because Sparta has the MCC) than Sparta. That much like the means of monitoring that the US and former USSR had during the Cold War (both had satellites up watching the others nuclear military posture to prevent a surprise attack) we need to keep monitoring units to watch the territory and seas between us. This way neither side is unpleasantly surprised. I propose we both be free to place ships in the seas between us. Transport ships (or IODs) carrying military units will not without prior notification and agreement be allowed within 8 spaces of each others territory. All Morgan ships that are within 8 spaces of a Spartan base will send a screen shot to Sparta. All Spartan ships within 8 spaces of a Morgan base will send a screen shot to Morgan. The definition of ships for this doctrain includes ships, foils, and IODs, place any other waterborne (if there are any) craft. On a related note: Since we want to make a lot of money, and we suspect that you want to make a lot of money too, we suggest that we enter into a Pact with the same profit sharing mechanism that we used in the past. Please let me know what you think. Sincerly, Mead [Mead hopes Sparta realizes that this is really a good deal for them. At the end of the day they get the Hunter back, renewed trade, and additional intell from any ships operating near their bases. He realizes that the only real loser in this whole sad epidode is Morgan. At the end of the day, it spent a lot of ECs to buy a ship it did not want, only to turn it back over to Sparta. Sparta is out nothing, Morgan is out the cost of buying the Hunter + temporary related support and drone problems. Anyway, as always he hopes for the best.]

It's gonna take a skilled hand to drag on negotiations with this, without making it seem obvious. They did add some stuff which are a bit iffy, but we could probably get the deal we were pretending to want within a turn or two.

One good thing you can always do is to insist on a formal apology just before striking the deal

	21-01-2005 12:09									#501
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We can afford to play hardball.

Before we agree to any alignment of the Modo Doctrine and the Yoda Doctrine, we should ask for:

• The cessation of all hostile activity of Morgan towards our vassal state, the UoP (this to include overt or covert operations)
  
• We don't want cash-flow - we want a lump sum for all due techtrade payments, plus a 25% premium for lost revenue during the disputed years
  
• The return of the Hunter - they can sail it to Arcadia University and turn over contol there
  
• A "lost-opportunity" payment of 200 ec's due to the fact that the Hunter was mind-controlled when it was on the point of popping the two pods adjacent to it, subsequently popped by Morgan using the Hunter

Last edited by Googlie on 21-01-2005 at 12:15

	21-01-2005 12:15									#502
	Remove this text

Things we can base on, to drag the negotiations out:

• They want to get away with only giving back the Hunter. But the trust has been deeply shattered, bla bla bla...
  
• They still didn't answer about a lump sum. Playing dumb on their side will help us immensely. Keep explaining to them.
  
• They apparently didn't accept the Modo Doctrine, even though they have no way to oppose it. Trying to sneak ships into Spartan waters?
  
• Just resuming paymenst is not enough, hance our denial of their last in-game proposition. We want to be compensated for the one-sided breach of treaties. We want at least half of the outstanding payments in lump sum. Perhaps go on as we were negotiating for the size of the lump sum, making it clear we want them to bleed (metaphorically speaking ).

Shouldn't be too dificult.

	26-01-2005 07:58									#503
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Good counter proposal, Kassi.

(I particularly liked the "freer hand" comments - that will get them thinking that it's maybe your position that you are stating and that perhaps the Junta might be more aggressive and penal.)

It's good for at least another couple of turns' to-ing and fro-ing

	26-01-2005 11:11									#504
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I also slipped in a line about not knowing everything. This will give me a bit of "innocence" when we start bonking heads.

	28-01-2005 10:57									#505
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Hmm - interesting reply from Mead. I wonder ............. are Mead and jtsisyoda giving us the "good cop - bad cop" routine?

	28-01-2005 12:56									#506
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

He didn't say much, really. Either he didn't achieve much when talking to the team, or Morgan is stalling as well. Still avoiding the lump sum like the plague. Whether this is just a negotiation tactic, I don't know.

	30-01-2005 06:07									#507
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If the Morganites are stalling too, all the more power to us. According to intel they are not gearing up for war (yet), so we have them exactly where we want them. I'll throw something back at them during the weekend to keep the negotiations alive.