14-10-2004 07:34									#1
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So what does everyone think?


I was watching it while grading peon (er, I mean, undergraduate) exams so I was not listening as intensely as with the last debates.


But from what I have seen and heard, I think I'm more ambivalent in terms of both candidates' performance. Maybe both of them did equally well this time??

	14-10-2004 07:35									#2
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Bush very much won this one. Very strong on his issues. Kerry seemed to be on the defense most of the night.

	14-10-2004 07:36									#3
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Substantively, it was just the usual arguments and nothing particularly strong from either one. But Bush came across as very human, and he had some good quips, and on the whole he had better style.

	14-10-2004 07:36									#4
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From what I've read on other forums, it sounds like this one was pretty even, with perhaps a very slight edge going to Kerry.

(-edit Although, I haven't watched the debate yet personally)

	14-10-2004 07:37									#5
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Bush was asked if he thought homosexuality was a choice, and he said he didn't know.

**** he's retarded. I just turned the damn thing off.

	14-10-2004 07:37									#6
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Kerry reeled off a lot of statistics very fast, which gave me the impression that he's got a good handle on the facts, but he was fairly uninteresting and none of the arguments were particularly resounding.

	14-10-2004 07:39									#7
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Bush 52 + 4 for the women jokes

Kerry 40

4 to the yahooing members of the audience

	14-10-2004 07:41									#8
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I liked how Kerry expressed his respect to Bush's outreach in the immediate days after 9/11 and on the other hand, I laughed and enjoyed Bush's joke about his wife and daughters at the end of the debate.

	14-10-2004 07:43									#9
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My scores on all the debates together

1st presidential debate:
Bush 15
Kerry 65

2nd presidential debate:
Bush 45
Kerry 65

VP debate:
Cheney 75
Edwards 45

Last debate:
Bush 65
Kerry 55



These numbers are fairly arbitrary, but what the hell. It's supposed to give a general impression of how they performed each time.

	14-10-2004 07:44									#10
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Bush did better than in the other two, but I still think Kerry won.

The problem is the standards are so low for Bush that even if he does mediocre, its considered a win. Thats sad.

	14-10-2004 07:44									#11
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Substantively it was even, but on style Bush finally won one.

	14-10-2004 07:44									#12
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn The problem is the standards are so low for Bush that even if he does mediocre, its considered a win. Thats sad.

	14-10-2004 07:44									#13
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Kerry had a few good points here and there. But Bush seemed to get his overrall message accross better. Despite a few whacked out typical Bush comments (at least he did not meniton wood ).

Buch C+
Kerry D+

	14-10-2004 07:45									#14
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How can you give Kerry an appalling D+?

	14-10-2004 07:45									#15
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Bush won this one, Kerry was on the defensive and repeating himself, he seemed like Bush in the first debate.

	14-10-2004 07:45									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Bush was asked if he thought homosexuality was a choice, and he said he didn't know. **** he's retarded. I just turned the damn thing off.

yeah Kerry won this point. but that was one of the few points he won.

	14-10-2004 07:45									#17
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It's important to remember that the most important question is: "What was the reaction to this debate among undecided voters?"

Anyway, in substance I think Kerry won, but in style I thought they were more or less tied. I think Bush will be the winner among undecided those.

	14-10-2004 07:52									#18
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"Only a Mass. liberal would think a 49% increase wasn't enough..."

So has Bush completely given up on getting MA's vote, so much so that he's decided to just Bash the state personally? What a tool :

	14-10-2004 07:53									#19
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No Republican is delusional enough to think that MA will vote for him. Not even Bush.

	14-10-2004 07:54									#20
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And I love his coming off as a down-home Texas boy at his down home Texas BBQ. Midland ain't Lubbock, George. Midland may as well be in CT.

	14-10-2004 07:55									#21
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn "Only a Mass. liberal would think a 49% increase wasn't enough..." So has Bush completely given up on getting MA's vote, so much so that he's decided to just Bash the state personally? What a tool :

he never had a chance in that state.

It's worth to give up that state to potentially gain 4 or 5 other states that are centrist and could go either way.

	14-10-2004 07:55									#22
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Kerry won.

He was calm, methodical and presidential all the way through. Bush seemed shrill at the beginning and, with about 20 minutes to go, he had a panicked look about him.

Kerrys' best moment was his response to the question of whether he'd raise the minimum wage. There must have been a terrible urge to express sympathy to small business owners, who would initially be hit by such a move. But instead, Kerry when straight into the teeth of the question, stating he would raise the minimum wage.

This was the right response economically (more money in the hands of consumers means a growing economy). the right response politically (more voters earn minimum wages than pay minimum wages) and the right response tactically (because it showed decisiveness, not flip flopping).

Best responses of the night goes to Bush. Following Kerry's laundry list of Bush's failures, Bush stepped up to the microphone and started with a "Whew!" It was funny, and & it completedly knocked out of my mind what Kerry had just said.

	14-10-2004 07:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar No Republican is delusional enough to think that MA will vote for him. Not even Bush.

But why the personal attack? Certainly a MA liberal isn't really that much different than a CA liberal... seems a bit mean.

	14-10-2004 07:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Substantively it was even, but on style Bush finally won one.

Yeah, I'd give the edge to Bush, just slightly. Bush showed a lot more heart. He nailed the religion question and nailed it hard. Kerry should have gone for the throat a lot more. However I think Kerry got some good hits in:

-Bush's claim that Kerry exaggerated his statement on bin Ladin in the beginning was a bald-faced lie.

-Kerry on assault weopons and law enforcement was good stuff.

-"Bush talking about fiscal responsibility is like Tony Soprano talking about law and order."

-Bush making education the answer to everything ticked me off.

-For someone who says "where's the money going to come from" as much as Bush did. Where the hell is the money going to come from to cover seniors who're getting SS benefits if you divert a good chunk of that money into savings accounts for the period of time until people who paid a lot of money into those start retiring??? There's a HUGE financial gap that he didn't address at all.


Oh and the idiot black guy on CNN is now saying that Kerry won (and lied and said that he thought that Kerry won the first debate). Can he get ANYTHING right??!?!?

Don't think this debate will affect the polls much at all, just like the second one didn't.

	14-10-2004 07:57									#25
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Bush's homosexuality answer was well crafted. He can't come out and say it isn't a choice and lose a good deal of Christians. He also can't say it is a choice and lose a large portion of the swing vote. Kerry did a good job with his answer as well, since he isn't going to get the fundie vote anyway.

Who won I don't know. Both Candidates bugged me, I score it even because I wasn't paying much attention to style. Kerry bugs me more and more. Still planning on voting for him, I guess.

	14-10-2004 08:00									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Kerry won.

Don't think so!

Kerry's answer on minimum wage was good. It was the only answer he gave all night that wasn't eithier a distortion or tainted by outright inaccuracies.

The truth is that raising the minimum wage when trying to gain jobs is just stupid. Nice idear but not very practical at this time.

Bush clearly had Kerry on the defense most of the night and seemed to easily side step or overcome all of Kerry's attacks.

	14-10-2004 08:00									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Kerry won. He was calm, methodical and presidential all the way through. Bush seemed shrill at the beginning and, with about 20 minutes to go, he had a panicked look about him. Kerrys' best moment was his response to the question of whether he'd raise the minimum wage. There must have been a terrible urge to express sympathy to small business owners, who would initially be hit by such a move. But instead, Kerry when straight into the teeth of the question, stating he would raise the minimum wage. This was the right response economically (more money in the hands of consumers means a growing economy). the right response politically (more voters earn minimum wages than pay minimum wages) and the right response tactically (because it showed decisiveness, not flip flopping). Best responses of the night goes to Bush. Following Kerry's laundry list of Bush's failures, Bush stepped up to the microphone and started with a "Whew!" It was funny, and & it completedly knocked out of my mind what Kerry had just said.

Raising minimum wage could put people out of work and increase inflation.

	14-10-2004 08:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Raising minimum wage could put people out of work and increase inflation.

No, its prudent at this point in time. Its not a huge jump either. In some states like MA and WA, its only a .25 cent increase.

	14-10-2004 08:04									#29
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quote: "Only a Mass. liberal would think a 49% increase wasn't enough..."

True, and I'll bet most of Bush's potential constituency - the right - wouldn't think too highly of Bush's 2nd only to Kerry in spending argument. Holy smokes, %49 is about right for you, George?

Bush won the liar's debate, maybe 56-44

	14-10-2004 08:04									#30
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Don't think so!

I do.

Face it, the South will fall yet again...