14-10-2004 08:06									#31
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quote: No, its prudent at this point in time. Its not a huge jump either. In some states like MA and WA, its only a .25 cent increase.

it's $5.15 right now... i figured it would be increased soon but i figured to maybe $5.75 or thereabouts not a massive increase like to 7 dollars. that would just cause crazy inflation. it's too much too soon.

	14-10-2004 08:07									#32
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn No, its prudent at this point in time. Its not a huge jump either. In some states like MA and WA, its only a .25 cent increase.

I agree that minimum wage jumps are inevitable. You can't keep it down so low for that long.

I think the best time to do it is when the economy is growing by a significant margin. I think we are still too close to our recent recession to raise wages.

	14-10-2004 08:08									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer it's $5.15 right now... i figured it would be increased soon but i figured to maybe $5.75 or thereabouts not a massive increase like to 7 dollars. that would just cause crazy inflation. it's too much too soon.

in defense of Kerry- he said this would be over several years.

	14-10-2004 08:09									#34
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"I can dig it" -John Kerry

	14-10-2004 08:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer it's $5.15 right now... i figured it would be increased soon but i figured to maybe $5.75 or thereabouts not a massive increase like to 7 dollars. that would just cause crazy inflation. it's too much too soon.

But most states have minimum wages that are higher than that anyways. Its 6.75 in Massachusetts.

	14-10-2004 08:13									#36
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Most states don't have min wage that is anything close to $6.75, btw.

	14-10-2004 08:14									#37
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yeah well it's 5.15 in PA and probably the same in most states. Taxachusetts is an abberation.

	14-10-2004 08:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Moral Hazard Who won I don't know. Both Candidates bugged me, I score it even because I wasn't paying much attention to style. Kerry bugs me more and more. Still planning on voting for him, I guess.

Know how your feel. Before the 1st debate, Kerry was really pissing me off and that debate made me feel a lot better about Kerry. This debate didn't do that at all.

	14-10-2004 08:16									#39
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Quite a few states have high minimum wages:

http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconom.../staterates.cfm

7.15 in Alaska, 6.90 in Oregon... among others.

	14-10-2004 08:17									#40
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I didn't see it.

Why the hell do they have a debate on a Friday and a Wednesday? How many prospective voters do they think they're reaching by slapping debates at bad times?

	14-10-2004 08:18									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Raising minimum wage could put people out of work and increase inflation.

This is the exact same argument I remember hearing back in '93. Then Clinton coupled the raise in minimum wage with a tax increase on the top 1.7% to decrease the deficient, and the result was the longest-lasting economic rise in American history.

	14-10-2004 08:18									#42
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CNN (or rather Larry King) just reported CNN Flash poll results:

Kerry 52%
Bush 39%

That shocks me.

	14-10-2004 08:19									#43
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Zkrib, correlations does not indicate correlation. Raising the minimum wage will have adverse effects, hopefully we can have another bubble like in the 90s to offset that.

	14-10-2004 08:19									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui CNN (or rather Larry King) just reported CNN Flash poll results: Kerry 52% Bush 39% That shocks me.

me too. hmmm

	14-10-2004 08:19									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui CNN (or rather Larry King) just reported CNN Flash poll results: Kerry 52% Bush 39% That shocks me.

I strongly suspect that internet users swing kerry.

	14-10-2004 08:20									#46
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Um... Jag.. its NOT an internet poll. It's a CNN flash poll. An actual poll.

	14-10-2004 08:23									#47
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Kerry won, both on content and style. Bush continued to be the smirk king, and he's going to be caught on the biggest lie of the night, his claim that he never said he wasn't concerned about Bin Laden, which he is clearly on record as saying.

CBS News Poll

Kerry 39
Bush 25

CNN Undecided Focus Group
24 on the panel
Kerry 10
Bush 7
Tie 7

ABC gave it 42 to 41 in favor of Kerry, but with a sample that was 38% Republican, 30% Dem and the rest independent.

That's 3-0 for Kerry.

	14-10-2004 08:30									#48
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Boris:

he said he wasn't worried about bin laden, bin laden was the one who should be worried...

he said the exact opposite of what the liberal spin doctors want you to believe...

and what was the deal with kerry's cheap shot at Cheney's daughter. did that serve any purpose?

	14-10-2004 08:34									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Boris: he said he wasn't worried about bin laden, bin laden was the one who should be worried... he said the exact opposite of what the liberal spin doctors want you to believe... and what was the deal with kerry's cheap shot at Cheney's daughter. did that serve any purpose?

we all know what Bush meant. It just sounds ****ed up the way he said it.

The Cheney's daughter thing seemed weird to me. I was uncomortable of him using her name like that. I wonder how she felt about it. Now if he discussed this with her beforehand, I guess it would be okay.

	14-10-2004 08:35									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Boris: he said he wasn't worried about bin laden, bin laden was the one who should be worried...

Bullshit that's what he said. TWICE he said he didn't care where Bin Laden was, and it was during the run up to the Iraq war, because he was trying to frame Saddam as the bigger threat.

	14-10-2004 08:36									#51
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edwards and kerry are up to something throwing around the name of cheney's daughter...

	14-10-2004 08:48									#52
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As I posted in the other thread... I listened to the debate on the radio. Without visuals, Kerry was the clear winner. The content of his answers was way better than Bush's.

Also, Bush was "huffing" into the microphone and on the radio it sounded kinda strange.

	14-10-2004 08:49									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Bullshit that's what he said. TWICE he said he didn't care where Bin Laden was, and it was during the run up to the Iraq war, because he was trying to frame Saddam as the bigger threat.

no, it's because Bin Ladin didn't and still doesn't pose any threat to the United States.

	14-10-2004 08:55									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident no, it's because Bin Ladin didn't and still doesn't pose any threat to the United States.

And you justify this how?

Bin Laden is, still to this day, a bigger threat to the U.S. than Saddam ever was. I direct you again to the timing and intent of Bush's comments, which was to frame Saddam as a graver threat to justify the war.

	14-10-2004 08:59									#55
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I only caught the last 20 minutes.

Not enought info for me to say who won.

What I did notice was that Bush seemed more toned down and human.

However he kept hitting the podium, making the microphone pop all the time!

	14-10-2004 08:59									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov And you justify this how? Bin Laden is, still to this day, a bigger threat to the U.S. than Saddam ever was. I direct you again to the timing and intent of Bush's comments, which was to frame Saddam as a graver threat to justify the war.

I can't agree completely. Neither of them posed any threat to the United States. So they were equal in threat.

	14-10-2004 09:04									#57
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My opinion is that the Red Sox lost.

	14-10-2004 09:07									#58
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People are looking for who seems presidential-not just their buddy.

Bush did seem more relaxed, and gave good answers. This is the sort of forum Bush does well in- he won in 2000 as a Compassionate Conservative, and he does care about education.

But Kerry showed he is president material- and while not as personal or relaxed, he gave strong answers:

To me the best exchange, and the one that showed the true difference came on education-when Bush stated that he had raised Federal spending on education by 48% and how only a liberal would think that not enough, Kerry came back with a simple answer, to paraphrase "its not about percentages, its about getting the job done" and then came back with the afterschool statistic.

Kerry was right- saying that spedning went up 48% means nothing unless you determine what % increase would actually be necessary to do the job you want to do.

Kerry's answer on assault weapons was solid.

	14-10-2004 09:09									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I can't agree completely. Neither of them posed any threat to the United States. So they were equal in threat.

So a guy who orchestrated the attack of 9/11--amongst other attacks--wasn't a threat to the U.S.?

	14-10-2004 09:09									#60
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Osama Bin Laden has actually proven to be successful in a terrorist attack, and the remnants of Al Quada could find a way to be successful again. Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi state have never succeeded in a terrorist attack against the US state. Have they even tried?

It's pretty obvious, to me.