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Brundlefly
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United States
Nov 2001
time: 00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
The slave trade did do great damage to the existing governments in Africa, and quite argueably some even collapsed because of it.
However, there are are number of things you have to then consider about this.
1. No one should be "thanking god for slavery" since the trade caused great harm overall. It is quite possible that *without* the slave trade, Africa would have developed in a much more progressive and peaceful manner, thanks to the fact the native governments didn't collapse. The slave trade made Africa worse and caused a great deal of anarchy which Africa is still recovering from in many areas, imho.
2. Nor should anyone be thanking the slavers. That is like thanking someone for giving you a job after they kill your family on purpose. You might be better off with the job than you would have been jobless and an orphan, but that doesn't mean you should be thankful to the murdering job-giver.
3. At best you could say that looking back, it is perhaps better to of had your ancesters enslaved as opposed to staying in Africa, but this isn't the case for everyone in Africa certainly, so you can't be entirely certain about this. In any case, this is being thankful that you were involved in a lesser disaster, or less affected by the disaster. It was still a disaster however.
-Drachasor |
Okay, I am answering one of your posts.
Regarding:
Your #1: You cant base an argument on "without the slave trade". Slavery happened. It is wrong for one race to enslave another. I hope it never happens again. My argument challenges the traditional idea that nothing good came from American slavery.
Your #2: No one is thanking the slavers.
Your #3: Dont understand what you are arguing. You seem to be agreeing with me. There is no way for an African-American to know if he came from an area in Africa that is now stable or chaotic. Either way, you need to consider whether the African race is better off having had the opportunity to assimilate to a stronger culture through slavery.
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Drachasor
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You've posted things about "being thankful for slavery" and such, and have said people should be thankful slavery happened.
At best...at best there could be some sort of small thankfulness that you aren't in one of the horrible places in Africa and are instead in the U.S. However, a lot of places in Africa aren't that bad and as such immigration would have been quite possible and even preferable. Some places even have very, very high standards of living, such as Namibia.
There should be no thanking of slave traders or of slavery in general. You have implied there should be:
quote:
American slavery has benefit the African race as a whole |
Slavery did not benefit the African race as a whole, the effects have been horrible and long-lasting. One should not be thankful for evils that existed or currently exist simply because they were bound to happen either.
-Drachasor
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by bfg9000
It is better for me to argue this not as it benefits individual African-Americans, but how American slavery has benefit the African race as a whole because it has allowed Africans to assimilate into a stronger conquering culture and make significant contributions to humanity. Contributions that they were not going to make had they been left in Africa to be ravaged by 19th-century European Imperialist economic exploitation and colonization. |
Yes, I think there has been some benefit, just as there is almost always some benefit to the mixing of different races and cultures.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
quote:
Originally posted by bfg9000
It is better for me to argue this not as it benefits individual African-Americans, but how American slavery has benefit the African race as a whole because it has allowed Africans to assimilate into a stronger conquering culture and make significant contributions to humanity. Contributions that they were not going to make had they been left in Africa to be ravaged by 19th-century European Imperialist economic exploitation and colonization. |
Yes, I think there has been some benefit, just as there is almost always some benefit to the mixing of different races and cultures. |
But slavery as a whole was not beneficial to Africa or Africans. Slavery wrecked a terrible devastation on the people taken and those that remained.
-Drachasor
Last edited by Drachasor on 28-10-2004 at 11:06
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Asmodean
*Asmodean gets on his knees and thanks God that a) he was not born in America and b) he lives in a country where race is not an issue) |
Oh really?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Just think how much better they could be today if they never had to deal with racial prejudice that slavery caused them... |
I think it's a bit naive to assume that prejudice against africans is mainly from slavery. Why do you think it is that practically every other race in the world looks down on black africans? Because they are backward. How else would they be so easily enslaved?
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
I think it's a bit naive to assume that prejudice against africans is mainly from slavery. Why do you think it is that practically every other race in the world looks down on black africans? Because they are backward. How else would they be so easily enslaved? |
*sigh* You are an idiot if you really believe this. People look down on the turmoil and chaos in Africa, and how savagery is rampant in many areas. How they have ignored the AIDs crises in many areas is also troubling. Anyone that blames that on a race is, quite simply, a racist. There are cultural problems there, but they are not caused by race. The very concept of races even is genetically questionable.
As for being easily enslaved, well, China, India, and the Native Americans would have been in the same boat if the west had tried to enslave them. They didn't.
Anyhow, you people should look at China and India. Both of those countries were exploited by Europe, and now they are poised to be among the most powerful of nations. Africa was *devastated* by slavery, and that continent still hasn't recovered, especially in the Congo.
-Drachasor
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Less naive than the suggestions being made by the thread starter 
But seriously... yeah, there would always be some prejudice against africans because they were different and less advanced... but many other races/nationalities have faced prejuduce before in this country, and have risen above it. Fortunately for them, they didn't come to this country as slaves... While slavery might not be the root cause, it has helped make the situation far worse, and that is the point I'm trying to make. Slavery has been a BIG disadvantge for the African people... and should never ever be considered something that has helped them in ANY way. |
you seem to imply many of them would have spread to the U.S. naturally. I would like to ask you how most of them could afford that? Very few africans today can afford to get to the U.S. They are way behind other countries in immigration.
Slavery has never, ever been a good thing in any way, shape, or form. But the past is the past. It makes no sense bringing it up. They are here living in the best country in the world. Might as well make the best of it. I'll tell you the truth. I don't like hearing all the talk about white man keeping them down. And how I, personally should pay them money. And I don't think they should idolize the african culture, but it's a free country, they can do whatever they please. But if I were them, I would learn to succeed in american culture.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
*sigh* You are an idiot if you really believe this. People look down on the turmoil and chaos in Africa, and how savagery is rampant in many areas. How they have ignored the AIDs crises in many areas is also troubling. Anyone that blames that on a race is, quite simply, a racist. There are cultural problems there, but they are not caused by race. The very concept of races even is genetically questionable. |
AIDS is a perfect example of racial differences in behaviour. The disease spreads like wildfire through black populations in every country. I'm not a racist (I don't feel hatred for others because of their race), but I'm not a biological flat-earther either.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
AIDS is a perfect example of racial differences in behaviour. The disease spreads like wildfire through black populations in every country. I'm not a racist (I don't feel hatred for others because of their race), but I'm not a biological flat-earther either. |
Such stark differences are not racial, they are cultural.
-Drachasor
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Such stark differences are not racial, they are cultural.
-Drachasor |
Personally I think both environment and genetics play a part.
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Drachasor
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In terms of intelligence in the U.S. the difference between Blacks and Whites is socio-economic. When you adjust for socio-economic levels, the differences disappear.
-Drachasor
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27-10-2004 20:15
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