27-10-2004 02:03									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Meanwhile the thousands of whites who were lynched are ignored.

You seem to be guilty of what you accused Laz of- you've just upped the number of white lynchings by the same amount Laz did. Hundreds, not thousands. I already provided the generally accepted figures... unless you have a source I don't, of course.

	27-10-2004 02:04									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Meanwhile the thousands of whites who were lynched are ignored.

Man -- we must be in the Caliverse zone right now.



You need to realize that lynching of blacks occurred in entirely different contexts than that of whites who were lynched.

Because of the important context in which blacks were lynched, "Without Sanctuary" only provides three or four photos with accompanying descriptions of whites being lynched.


This is not to say that we should ignore lynching of whites. What it does mean, is that we need to acknowledge the different contexts between lynching of blacks, and that of lynching of whites.

	27-10-2004 02:05									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp How many white men got lynched for whistling at women, incidentally?

AFAIK, none. Whites who got lynched in the South were generally killed for such evil crimes as . . . labor organizing, consorting with Blacks, being a Republican, being a carpet bagger or scallawag or butternut, etc. Out west, people were lynched for being rustlers, theives, murderers, or being mistaken for one of the above.

	27-10-2004 02:11									#94
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Wow! Americans love slavery now! I hope you dont mind if we Russians go back into Eastern Europe to reclaim our slaves again

	27-10-2004 02:12									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Wow! Americans love slavery now! I hope you dont mind if we Russians go back into Eastern Europe to reclaim our slaves again

Moscow burning, take 5. (C) LIETUVA

	27-10-2004 02:12									#96
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara AFAIK, none. Whites who got lynched in the South were generally killed for such evil crimes as . . . labor organizing, consorting with Blacks, being a Republican, being a carpet bagger or scallawag or butternut, etc. Out west, people were lynched for being rustlers, theives, murderers, or being mistaken for one of the above.

Someone who understands the concept of "different contexts."

	27-10-2004 02:14									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie I think I see what you [Cal] mean... although you seem to be mistaken when you say that most people lynched were white. The figure I see cited at most websites is around 4800, 3400 of those black.

If anything, the figure for whites is likely to be an undercount, since unreported lynchings were common in the West, where most victims were white.

quote: In which case, given that the population was mostly white, it would seem black people were disproportionately the victims of lynching, which would in turn indicate that the motives were often racist (At best you could say fewer whites were lynched because their peers were more willing to let them get away with crimes).

I think it quite likely that Blacks were disproportionately the victims of lynching, and no doubt some of that was due to racism. But I strongly disagree with people like Che who seem to think that all the blacks who were lynched were completely innocent of any wrongdoing.

	27-10-2004 02:15									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Moscow burning, take 5.

We demonic Russians have set fire to our own cities before As long as it gives us high quality Lithuanian slaves to rebuild our great cities....
Not to mention that your flag is unsightly. You should be more like Estonia

	27-10-2004 02:16									#99
	Re: "Next time get your facts straight" indeed :) Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Gibsie You seem to be guilty of what you accused Laz of- you've just upped the number of white lynchings by the same amount Laz did. Hundreds, not thousands. I already provided the generally accepted figures... unless you have a source I don't, of course.

It would only take 800 or so unreported white lynchings to bring the number up to 2000 which would qualify as thousands wouldn't it? Unreported lynchings were common, so I think it's fair to say that thousands of whites were lynched.

	27-10-2004 02:17									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Not to mention that your flag is unsightly. You should be more like Estonia

Our flag is the most jamaican of all european flags

	27-10-2004 02:18									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Our flag is the most jamaican of all european flags

We'll let the Estonian slaves keep their flag because it looks nice. Poland, Latvia, and Lithuania are a completly different matter...
As my first order, I command you to burn this thread down.

	27-10-2004 02:19									#102
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quote: Slavery is wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by American slaves and their descendants, people of African descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do know. For that, they should be thankful.

that's like saying:
"The Atomic Bomb was wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by those Japanese and their descendants, people of Japanese descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do now. For that, they should be thankful."

"The Occupation of Korea by Japan was wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by those Koreans and their descendants, people of Korean descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do now. For that, they should be thankful."

"The Opium War was wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by those Chinese and their descendants, people of Chinese descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do now. For that, they should be thankful."

"The USSR was wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by those Russians and their descendants, people of Russian descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do now. For that, they should be thankful."

"The Vietnam War was wrong. It should never have happened. But it did. If not for the sacrifice made by those Vietnamese and their descendants, people of Vietnamese descent would never have had the opportunity to contribute to humanity as they do now. For that, they should be thankful."

	27-10-2004 02:20									#103
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quote: The Jews should be thankful for the Holocaust -- I'm sure there were unintended positive benefits the current generation of Jews enjoy today, as a result of the Holocaust.

Well, if you read Iskandar Reza's joke thread, the current generation of Jews is thankful for the Holocaust.

	27-10-2004 02:21									#104
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Man -- this is one of the most stupid threads in awhile.

	27-10-2004 02:23									#105
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Any thread which gives its tacit approval for the actions of the Soviet Union is great in my book

	27-10-2004 02:24									#106
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This is not the first time this notion has crept up.

	27-10-2004 02:32									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia But I strongly disagree with people like Che who seem to think that all the blacks who were lynched were completely innocent of any wrongdoing.

That's because I stand with the 99% of Americans who don't use the KKK to get my version of American history.

	27-10-2004 02:33									#108
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what, that people should be thankful for the rape and destruction of their people?

or that black people should stfu because they have it good here?

===

in response to the first one, the OP of this thread is like saying, "Hey, she got an orgasm out of it, she should be thankful!" or "Hey, she was askin' for it!"

in response to the second one, the OP of this thread is like saying, "Hey, you're now going to be a permanent vegetable, aware of everything going around you but unable to act on it. And you've got fire ants your bed. But hey! It's not so bad, I just got a Lexus!"

	27-10-2004 02:42									#109
	Re: Re: "Next time get your facts straight" indeed :) Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia It would only take 800 or so unreported white lynchings to bring the number up to 2000 which would qualify as thousands wouldn't it? Unreported lynchings were common, so I think it's fair to say that thousands of whites were lynched.

No, it's not fair to assume that half again of the number of reported lynchings happened without being recorded. You've just pulled from your posterior the assertion that unreported lynchings were common, without any basis for thinking that, haven't you? I'm surprised you're not trying to argue that a number in the mid-thousand really counts as "thousands" as well.

[Edit: and no, even if you do a quick google search for "unreported lynchings" and come up with a site that tells you that unreported lynchings were common in the West, that still doesn't justify adding several hundred to the figure. I win on the semantics here ]

	27-10-2004 02:56									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Also, it's not necessary for you to start name-calling just because my opinion differs from yours. Hes name calling because you, an average white male, have no idea the hell that every black person endures everyday. While they sit there sipping on steamy hot cappacinos they have to put up with white people screaming heil hitler in thier face. For shame bfg, you should know better ignorant Americans.

What a load of crap.

	27-10-2004 03:03									#111
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It's so frustrating to argue in a thread that has been sucked into a universe of distortion, half-truths, and white-washing.

	27-10-2004 03:07									#112
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's because I stand with the 99% of Americans who don't use the KKK to get my version of American history.

So if I don't think that every black who was ever lynched was pure as the driven snow I must be consulting the KKK?

	27-10-2004 03:09									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia So if I don't think that every black who was ever lynched was pure as the driven snow I must be consulting the KKK?

No -- you just have to own up to the fact, that the majority of blacks who were lynched were innocent of any crime.

You also have to own up to the fact that those blacks who were accused of a crime, were lynched without trial.

You also have to own up to the fact that those blacks who were lynched, and were proven to have committed a crime, suffered a grossly inhumane, horrible punishment that was out of proportion for the crime they committed.


That is what Che, myself, and others are saying.

	27-10-2004 03:15									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I think it quite likely that Blacks were disproportionately the victims of lynching, and no doubt some of that was due to racism.

Oh, Cal. You had me at hello.

	27-10-2004 03:16									#115
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Nothern estimates from that time believed that only 1/3 of black lynch victims were guilty of a crime.

	27-10-2004 03:21									#116
	Re: Re: Re: "Next time get your facts straight" indeed :) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Gibsie No, it's not fair to assume that half again of the number of reported lynchings happened without being recorded. You've just pulled from your posterior the assertion that unreported lynchings were common, without any basis for thinking that, haven't you? I'm surprised you're not trying to argue that a number in the mid-thousand really counts as "thousands" as well. [Edit: and no, even if you do a quick google search for "unreported lynchings" and come up with a site that tells you that unreported lynchings were common in the West, that still doesn't justify adding several hundred to the figure. I win on the semantics here ]

My source is Lynching - History and Analysis by Dwight Murphey. I'm not assuming that unreported lynching were uncommon, it is a historical fact. And if you take into account the fact that Blacks were considered lesser humans by most in those times then its quite reasonable to say that the lynching of a white would have been less likely to have have been reported.

	27-10-2004 03:23									#117
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun No -- you just have to own up to the fact, that the majority of blacks who were lynched were innocent of any crime. You also have to own up to the fact that those blacks who were accused of a crime, were lynched without trial. You also have to own up to the fact that those blacks who were lynched, and were proven to have committed a crime, suffered a grossly inhumane, horrible punishment that was out of proportion for the crime they committed. That is what Che, myself, and others are saying.

Perhaps you should read through Che's comments again.

	27-10-2004 03:31									#118
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara AFAIK, none. Whites who got lynched in the South were generally killed for such evil crimes as . . . labor organizing, consorting with Blacks, being a Republican, being a carpet bagger or scallawag or butternut, etc. Out west, people were lynched for being rustlers, theives, murderers, or being mistaken for one of the above.

BS. Lynching was by no means random killing but punishment for specific crimes. Many participants knew the accused and could determine his guilt. Even opponents of lynching rarely argued that the victims were innocent - only that courts rather than mobs should enforce the law and that lynch mobs could commit unspeakable cruelties.

	27-10-2004 03:36									#119
	Re: Re: Re: Re: "Next time get your facts straight" indeed :) Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia My source is Lynching - History and Analysis by Dwight Murphey. I'm not assuming that unreported lynching were uncommon, it is a historical fact. And if you take into account the fact that Blacks were considered lesser humans by most in those times then its quite reasonable to say that the lynching of a white would have been less likely to have have been reported.

Ironically your source guesstimates the total number of lynchings to be 25,000, thereby making your original complaint that Laz had overstated the number of lynchings to be rather amusing

	27-10-2004 03:45									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Ironically your source guesstimates the total number of lynchings to be 25,000, thereby making your original complaint that Laz had overstated the number of lynchings to be rather amusing

Not really, unless you think 20,000 of those were blacks. Remember, Laz was referring only to Blacks being lynched.