 |
| |
|
|
dojoboy
|
 |
Tansi (USA)
Nov 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So if I told you America was perfect you'd vote for me?  |
That's silly. You don't have any experience, do you? 
No place is perfect. But, America is far from being in trouble. Outside of the Iraqi War, Bush's opponents only have predictable objections. These criticisms, even if valid, have no bearing on the stability and vitality of America. The US has survived in spite of leadership. Out of the 43 Presidents, how many do you think really made a difference? Three? Four?
I'm better off than I was 4 years ago, my family is better of than 4 years ago, my community is better off than 4 years ago, and on and on. And Iraq, when it is said and done, will be much, much better off than it was 4 years ago. Afghanistan obviously is.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by dojoboy
No place is perfect. But, America is far from being in trouble. Outside of the Iraqi War, Bush's opponents only have predictable objections. These criticisms, even if valid, have no bearing on the stability and vitality of America. The US has survived in spite of leadership. Out of the 43 Presidents, how many do you think really made a difference? Three? Four? |
Most Presidents do make a difference because they have easy access to the public and they have great influence over the congress because of this. It is simply not the case that Presidents don't make a difference. Your arguement is especially odd considering you seem to be saying that Bush might be a terrible leader, but it doesn't really matter so you might as well vote for him. Ehh? In any case, I think it is harder to name Presidents that didn't make a difference. Here are a few that did: Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Jackson, both Roosevelts, Clinton, Bush (both), and Reagen. There are many, many more.
And just because criticism is "predictable" doesn't mean the criticism isn't valid. I have yet to see most of my criticism adequately responded to, and I can only assume it is because there is no response. All the Bush supporters have is rhetoric.
And America is in trouble. World Powers collapse historically because they overreach themselves. They start thinking they don't need allies to do what they want and that they can force everyone to agree with them. That sort of thinking and behavior always spells the end of a world power. That sort of thinking is exactly the same kind of thinking Bush has; Instead of working on international treaties that a lot of time has been invested in, he just leaves; Instead of working with other countries on Iraq, he dictates what will happen; Instead of listening to the relevent countries around North Korea, he ignores their please for bilateral talks. This is why the world doesn't like him, and over time this sort of attitude will make it so that America has less and less of a say in international affairs. As the world goes on, we'll be left behind.
And, as I have said, there are many other criticisms of the administration that are not responded to. You say you trust Bush more? Well he lies a lot more and in worse ways than Kerry, and that is simply a fact. I have never seen a Bush supporter try to defend Bush on this adequately, the best I have gotten is that counting is apparently subjective. 
quote:
Originally posted by dojoboy
I'm better off than I was 4 years ago, my family is better of than 4 years ago, my community is better off than 4 years ago, and on and on. And Iraq, when it is said and done, will be much, much better off than it was 4 years ago. Afghanistan obviously is. |
Most communities are not better off, most families are not better off, most people are not better off. This is simply a fact of the current economic situation alone, to say nothing of other matters.
In addition, Iraq is causing a massive increase in the number of terrorists. The world is not better off. Bush has shown he can't listen to criticism on his plans regarding Iraq; he ignores generals that ask for more troops he ignores them asking for more supplies. Iraq will not be handled in a decent way if Bush remains in office, because Bush refuses to see that there is a problem. Heck, 50 Iraqi security forces going home on leave were killed. They were unguarded and had no weapons. That's *our* fault for not helping them watch their backs in such a dangerous time, and Bush hasn't done anything about it.
This is the same administration that ignored warnings that something big was coming before 9/11. They ignored a memo entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack within United States", a memo that by its very nature the president must have read. They ignored memos wherein it was stated that Al Qaeda has terrorist cells within the U.S. They were given a plan on how to handle terrorism and deal with it, but refused to admit it was a plan and instead called it "a list of actionable items"...that's what a plan is!*
Apparently, however, incompetence and stupidy are not significant issues to the supporters of Bush.
-Drachasor
*All this was said to the 9/11 commission by the Bush Administration.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by dojoboy
Drachasor, google for Kerry's lies. You'll have plenty to read. Me recounting them here is futile. |
google: "senator kerry" lies
result: 71,000 hits.
google: "president george w. bush" lies
result: 132,000 hits
google: "senator john kerry" lies
result: 34,000 hits.
And factcheck.org, the site I referenced before, does both parties and is non-partisan. Cheney, in his debate, told people to go look at it.
Your recounting is apparently futile because you know that Bush lies more. That's the only reasoning I can see. Afterall, if you google Bush's lies, you get a lot more reading material.
-Drachasor
PS. there is more than one Senator Kerry in history, and more than one in recent history.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by dojoboy
To argue my candidate lies less than your candidate is asinine. |
Except you are only backing off now that it is clear Bush lies a lot more than Kerry.
You can't defend your position, so naturally arguing for it is asinine.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
It's only a matter of time before one of the parties tries to discredit factcheck because it made them look bad (Repubs most likely in near-future).
-Arrian |
It would of happened much sooner if Factcheck kept a running tally of dishonesty or anything like that.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Adam Smith
|
 |
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
|
|
Like Robert Jordan's grandfather, I've "never knowingly sat at the same table as a Democrat." But THIS article from The American Conservative states the case defeating George W. Bush about as concisely as I have seen it. I think it's worth the read.
quote:
Bush has behaved like a caricature of what a right-wing president is supposed to be, and his continuation in office will discredit any sort of conservatism for generations. The launching of an invasion against a country that posed no threat to the U.S., the doling out of war profits and concessions to politically favored corporations, the financing of the war by ballooning the deficit to be passed on to the nation’s children, the ceaseless drive to cut taxes for those outside the middle class and working poor: it is as if Bush sought to resurrect every false 1960s-era left-wing cliché about predatory imperialism and turn it into administration policy. |
George W. Bush is not anywhere near the sharpest knife in the drawer. His limited capacity and family history has resulted in administration policy which can best be summed up as "Don't make the same two mistakes Daddy made."
First, don't leave Saddam Hussein in power. But the use of American military, economic, and political power to conduct a personal vendetta is absolutely inexcusable.
Second, do everything you can to make sure the economy is ripping along by the time election day rolls around. But in doing so George W Bush has started to piss away the greatest absolute advantage the American economy has over any other country in the world: financial stability. We and our children will pay the bill.
I know that many of you who support George W. Bush are very leery of John Kerry. And in many ways Kerry is like the Democrat Kamasutra: a thousand different positions and you still get screwed. But I also know that many of you supervise other people in the workplace. And if one of your employees persistently screwed up as badly as George W. Bush, wouldn't you fire them and take what's behind Door #2 as a replacement?
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
27-10-2004 18:59
Commies.
Such arguements make me weary. I never said Bush didn't lie, but don't make the claim if your own candidate lies. I didn't begin the accusation.
|