 |
| |
|
|
Ben Kenobi
|
 |
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:20
|
|
quote:
And would such people not do this if certain religious elements weren't attacking them at every opportunity.
|
You equate the conduct with the person. That's like saying a murderer cannot be forgiven for his past actions, even if he repents.
quote:
It doesn't matter where they come from. People want manifestly different laws for many things and agree on only a few, so the only solution is the social contract.
|
But what is part of the social contract? The contract says that you ought to respect those in the church, even if their beliefs differ from yours.
You are not even able to uphold your own contract, which you break to take out some of your frusterations on the church.
Secondly, the source does matter. If you tear at the foundation, everything built on top collapses.
quote:
You know I don't agree with that either. But I don't see the average liberal wanting to make homosexuality compulsory.
|
They don't, and neither does the church make adherance to scripture compulsory. If you choose to be a part of the church, then this applies. If you choose to reject the church, the church will leave you alone.
But it makes no sense to me, to attack the church after you have rejected their message, and want nothing to do with them.
Secondly, if these gay people are so tolerant of differences in opinion, why do they force people to agree with them that homosexuality is a good thing?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Oncle Boris
|
 |
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by dojoboy
I went and voted early yesterday and submitted my ballot for Bush. I had considered voting for Badnarik, but couldn't bring myself to do it when the time came.
This whole election has been one of great turmoil for me. Several of my good friends are Democrats or leaning toward Kerry, including my wife. Nothing new. One very good friend said to me, "I find it bizarre that someone I like and respect so much as you, would vote for Bush." He's right. It is bizarre.
I completely support the majority of the Democrat's agenda; however, I do not necessarily support the methods for obtaining it. The idea that Republicans are against caring for people insults me. It's just not true.
I'm a rabid nationalist, but I completely support the forum of world opinion. However, I do not support forfeiting American economic & military power to appease the world. Why would I? To do so, I would have to believe others in the world would "play fair." Obviously, that is not true.
My decision came down to one of who makes me feel best about America. Between the two major candidates, it's Bush. Kerry does not.
This is hardwired, nothing Kerry can say could sway me.
Now, anyone of you can easily flame me and offer, ad naseum, comments on "this and that." And, I can easily reply with such comments. |
There isn't a single argument in this.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
dojoboy
|
 |
Tansi (USA)
Nov 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
Oct. 6, 2004. It was written by Mathew Manweller who is a Central
Washington University political science professor.
The title of the article was "Election Determines Fate of Nation."
"In that this will be my last column before the presidential election there will be no sarcasm, no attempts at witty repartee. The topic is too serious, and the stakes are too high. This November we will vote in the only election during our lifetime that will truly matter. Because America is at a once-in-a-generation crossroads, more than an election hangs in the balance. Down one path lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down the other lies a nation that is aware of its past and accepts the daunting obligation its future demands. If we choose poorly, the consequences will echo through the next 50 years of history. If we, in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current occupant of the White House, the message to the world and ourselves will be two fold. First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things. Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from who we are.
Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that the lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed terrorists that you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when you can defeat them in the newsroom. They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America. Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy lifting, turning a cut into a fatal blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia times 10. The election of John Kerry will serve notice to every terrorist in every cave that the soft underbelly of American power is the timidity of American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady stream of grizzly photos for CNN is all you need to break the will of the American people. Our own self-doubt will take it from there. Bin Laden will recognize that he can topple any American administration without setting foot on the homeland. It is said that America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest generation.' But my greatest fear is that it will become known as America's 'last generation.' Born in the bleakness of the Great Depression and hardened in the fire of WW II, they may be the last American generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and sacrifice. It is difficult to admit, but I know these terms are spoken with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my generation. Too many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being an American.' But America has always been more of an idea than a place. When you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values and responsibilities. This November, my generation, which has been absent too long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the oblivion they may deserve. I believe that 100 years from now historians will look back at the election of 2004 and see it as the decisive election of our century. Depending on the outcome, they will describe it as the moment America joined the ranks of ordinary nations; or they will describe it as the moment the prodigal sons and
daughters of the greatest generation accepted their burden as caretakers of the City on the Hill."
Last edited by dojoboy on 27-10-2004 at 06:25
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
 |
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:20
|
|
quote:
They don't, and neither does the church make adherance to scripture compulsory. If you choose to be a part of the church, then this applies. If you choose to reject the church, the church will leave you alone. |
What church or religion doesn't use government to impose it's doctrines on others? The rise of republican and democratic institutions has forced the church to share more of it's power thereby weakening it's ability to compel strict adherence, but all we need is history to see how churches won't leave others alone when given the power of the state. The irony is many religions were founded by people who were persecuted by the state and would be rolling in their graves to see what they spawned. Imagine what Jesus would think upon seeing the Inquisition committed in his name. Burn some witches in His name? Brilliant! These are the people Jesus was talking about when He will say the following words on Judgement Day, "I never knew you". But Jesus never told His followers to form a government and compel adherence, that is a mockery of true Christianity.
So IMO, Christianity died long ago - it was killed by the Romans when they made it the state's religion. If it lives on, it does so only on a personal level.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
Bah, it isn't like Kerry is going to leave Iraq anytime soon if he gets elected.
Send a message to the rest of the world? Well, if Bush gets re-elected then it sends a terrifying message about American Democracy; that it is our way or the highway and we'll shoot first and sort out the mess later. The rest of the world and shocked and mortified by what the U.S. had done by and large, and confirming that this is what America is would send a very chilling message indeed.
I will tell you one thing though, democracy in the middle east is certainly too big of a job for Bush. He can't realize we don't have enough troops or allies. He refused to acknowledge that most of the Iraqis are very angry with us. He acts like this group of Iraqi forces we've trained there like us, when they might have 5% of their ranks infiltrated and the rest of them aren't too thrilled about the occupation either.
We need a president that will recognize the realities of the situation. That is something Bush and his Administration can't or won't do; they've demonstrated that again and again over the past 4 years.
-Drachasor
Edit: clarified the intent of my first sentence. Added "Iraq" and "if elected".
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
|
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:20
|
|
dojo - quote:
Down one path lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down the other lies a nation that is aware of its past and accepts the daunting obligation its future demands. If we choose poorly, the consequences will echo through the next 50 years of history. |
This is illogical hyperbole, the import of this election is far less than the elections that got us into this mess. You don't look at an election after war has broken out, you look at previous elections that paved the way to war and what went wrong. And what went wrong was Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2 - these are the men in power when the road to war was being paved. Hell, we can go back a few more administrations to the post WWII world - the creation Of Israel, support of the Shah in Iran, etc. But it was our involvement in the Iran-Iraq war as we got mad at the Iranians for ousting the Shah that led to terrorism as we see it. Saddam became our friend because of the Iranian revolution and that led him to believe we would wink at his invasion of Kuwait. We led him to believe that, he invaded, we reacted differently, and then we made what appears to be the fatal mistake - we began building military bases in Saudi Arabia. Will electing Bush or Kerry solve this problem? I doubt it, neither candidate seems to understand the wisdom of minding one's own business.
quote:
If we, in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current occupant
of the White House, the message to the world and ourselves will be
twofold. |
So it's spasmatic to oust the noncompoop who mislead us into Iraq? LIke father, like son...
quote:
First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things. Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and
stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the Middle East is too big of a task for us. |
Ask the Saudis for help? 
quote:
But more significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. |
This guy thinks the collapse of previous empires resulted from voters not embracing the notion of empire? How many actually voted? And empires collapse because they over extend, not because they stay within their means.
quote:
The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from who we are. |
No, it'll simply mean that bad decisions were made by those seeking an empire. Maybe empire ain't a good idea to begin with...
quote:
Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that
the lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed
terrorists that you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when
you can defeat them in the newsroom. |
If "defeat" means we leave them alone and they leave us alone, then the lesson will have been learned. Don't smack a hornet's nest with a stick...
quote:
They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America. Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy lifting, turning a cut into a fatal
blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia times 10. |
Or hopefully, that a wounded America will wake voters up as to what our leaders have been doing abroad to create enemies. That's why these clowns tell us we were attacked because we are free; as if a bunch of people woke up one day and just couldn't stand the fact another group of people on the other side of the world were "free". Hell, we aren't even free, so wtf are these American leaders talking about? They can't admit 9/11 was a result of their meddling in the Middle East... I understand, passing the buck is as old as Adam, Eve, and God.
quote:
The election of John Kerry
will serve notice to every terrorist in every cave that the soft
underbelly of American power is the timidity of American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady stream of grizzly photos for CNN is all you need to break the will of the American people. Our own self-doubt will take it from
there. |
Self-doubt is important, it's what teaches a child to not keep putting their hand on the stove.
quote:
Bin Laden will recognize that he can topple any American
administration without setting foot on the homeland. |
That's peculiar, setting foot on other people's homeland is as American as appie pie.
quote:
It is said that
America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest generation.' But my greatest
fear is that it will become known as America's 'last generation.' Born
in the bleakness of the Great Depression and hardened in the fire of WW II,
they may be the last American generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and sacrifice. |
So you're unpatriotic if you oppose our globalist endeavors? These a-holes are why we are in this mess...
quote:
It is difficult to admit, but I know these
terms are spoken with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my
generation. Too many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being
an American.' But America has always been more of an idea than a
place. When you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values and responsibilities. |
Yes, the "responsibility" to close your eyes as these people bring enemies home from their world travels.
quote:
This November, my generation, which
has been absent too long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the oblivion they may deserve. I believe that 100
years from now historians will look back at the election of 2004 and see
it as the decisive election of our century. |
No, the election that sees an "isolationist" win will be the most important - that will be when we no longer seek dragons abroad to slay.
quote:
Depending on the outcome, they
will describe it as the moment America joined the ranks of ordinary
nations; or they will describe it as the moment the prodigal sons and
daughters of the greatest generation accepted their burden as caretakers
of the City on the Hill." |
That city on a hill will be turned to vapor one day by a nuke carried in by terrorists, it's just a matter of time. So, how do we prevent this? Eliminate all nukes? Nope, we can reduce their number but that's no guarantee. It's easier to avoid creating terrorists... These attacks began, not just after decades, no, centuries of the west screwing around in Muslim lands, but after we began building military bases in Saudi Arabia. Lesson? We are infidels and infidels don't occupy Muslim holy lands without paying a price.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
Agathon:
wow... that is EXACTLY what i'm talking about... you're pushing it FAR too hard where you sound like a fool. the things you say are like a conservative calling Kerry a Communist faggot who will turn over the US to the Chinese and the French. why is it that conservatives never say things like that? because they have enough sense to know that there is a fine line between being a bit rough on your opponent to get undecideds to come to your side and being downright silly.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Leave it neo-cons and the GOP to bring libertarians together with communists? |
yeah... leave it to the GOP, with it's tens of millions of registered party members, 150 years of history, and over a dozen presidents, to bring modern Jacobins together with bolsheviks... oh and don't forget Lyndon LaRouche!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ted Striker
|
 |
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:20
|
|
I have never felt this ashamed in my country ever
You know, when I grew up, we always watched great movies. In them, America always protected the world from the bad guys.
Unfortunatley, this time we ARE the bad guys.
George Bush and President Cheney have disgraced our nation more than any other leaders in history. 
My write in ballot goes out tomorrow morning. I will fill it out tonight, and make my mark for John Kerry.
This is coming from someone, who waited in line, all by him self, up all night, without food or water, for 17 hours, to pay my last respects to President Reagan.
George Bush has perverted everything that I stand for. He is not the United States of America.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
yall liberals sure love proving my point OVER and OVER again... i'm not complaining though... your silliness is converted people to the GOP.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
when will it stop? liberals have called Bush everything short of the devil... let's not forget all the references to Hitler...
blaming Bush for the flu? blah? what's next? Bush made my wife divorce me! Bush gave me severe back pain! Bush...
what possesses yall to act like this? it's really sad.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
27-10-2004 04:37
|