07-11-2004 18:55									#91
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire Well, there's some of that in the game. Mind-controlling witnesses to testify "properly" in court will net you dark side points, and that's a very Palpatine thing to do.

That is probably the only part where you get to do things the Palpatine way.

But I figured that a Dark Sider, even one like Palpatine would rather see Sunry get fried, seeing as how getting him cleared helps the Republic, and hinders the Sith.

Loved that subplot BTW. No black and white distinctions. No moral high ground. Just pure politics and a battle of words that's part of a greater war. Either way, I would walk out of the courtroom feeling dirty about the outcome I brought forth.

quote: Still, things like collecting unjust bounties aren't bad Dark Side things to do. I had no problem doing those. Also, some of the attitudes you could present by your statment also worked- telling the Sith Governor on Taris you'd rend the flesh from his bones, or something.

Yeah, those aren't as petty as forcing a poor widow to give you the wraid plate she was hoping to sell to feed her starving family, or scrapping the runaway droid on Dantooine and telling its owner it is still out there. Both of those examples, and the vast majority of others are totally uncalled for, even for an evil mastermind.

And I will admit that Force Choking the rude Czerka guy in the cantina on Tatooine is adequately Vader like. And my character telling the Sith Governor on Taris that he's going to enjoy gutting him sent a chill down my spine. If not that, then the response I get from the Governor.

quote: The second plot twist I don't think fit as well, but whatever, I guess they needed to do that. I know that they tried to explain the Sith army by having somebody mention that they tortured captured Jedi until they turned...

Yeah, I don't really like the second plot twist. I've seen that particular plot device used so many times. Bioware had already used it once before (though it held a bigger impact in the said previous release IMO).

quote: the thing is, I can totally buy that being tortured will bring out your desire for revenge and help turn you to the Dark Side. What I don't buy is that you'd then join the person who was torturing you! You'd be just using the Force any way you can to kill your oppressor! If Bastilla had killed Malak and taken up command of the Sith fleet herself, that'd have been neat.

Then my male LS character would be left heartbroken when he can't bring her back.

Anyway, Malak was far more powerful than Bastila ever could be in such a short amount of time. There was just no way she could ever defeat him. His torture of her was designed for more than just breaking her will and filling her heart with anger and hate. It was his assertion of dominance over her. A cheap show of superiority to keep her in line once she had finally broken.

	08-11-2004 05:28									#92
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speak for yourselves.

I liked being a thug . The only thing I couldn't do was do anything evil to that alien on the top level of Taris. The one the kids are making fun of. I chased the kids off and threatened the kids life. For some reason I couldn't take the most evil option there. I felt sorry for the alien

Thuggery

	08-11-2004 06:13									#93
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This is Star Wars, not Detroit.

	08-11-2004 06:22									#95
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none of you consider Vader a thug?

He chokes a guy for a simple screw up? It wasn't even his fault.

	08-11-2004 06:28									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident none of you consider Vader a thug? He chokes a guy for a simple screw up? It wasn't even his fault.

I'd say blatent thuggery does equal dark side, but the finesse at which the emperor conducts his evil is also of teh dark side. However, that finesse is very dificult, if not impossible to capture in a game.

	08-11-2004 07:37									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident speak for yourselves. I liked being a thug . The only thing I couldn't do was do anything evil to that alien on the top level of Taris. The one the kids are making fun of. I chased the kids off and threatened the kids life. For some reason I couldn't take the most evil option there. I felt sorry for the alien Thuggery

Even my Light Side characters are tough enough to threaten to hurt those brats if they don't leave the Ithorian alone. And if you refuse to help the Ithorian Carth threatens those kids instead.


Oh, and...

Thuggery

	08-11-2004 13:54									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident none of you consider Vader a thug? He chokes a guy for a simple screw up? It wasn't even his fault.

Not the point I was making. Anekin doesn't just go around choke-holding people to begin with. He faces difficult choices, chooses badly, and slowly reaches the point where he choke-holds people.

	30-06-2005 08:39									#99
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After loudly denigrating this game for awhile, I now have to make an embarrassing retraction.

I completed my first run through the game last night, and feel pretty pleased about the experience.

The game turned around for me during the incredible plot twist, when I learnt to true identity of my character. Everything suddenly made sense.

I had felt fairly apathetic and unsatisfied with the story up until that point, for my character had a non-existent history, and the shoddy Jedi training he received seemed cheap and unrealistic. I kept wishing my character had been raised as a Jedi because it would have made the good/evil choices more interesting. So the twist took me by surprise in a big way. It was almost as satisfying as the climax of Fight Club, when Ed Norton discovers he is infact Tyler Durden.

After the plot twist I gained much more pleasure performing the plot advancement missions, which had previously felt tedious.

I still have one complaint with the game though: the 3D engine sucked. The camera really irritated me during many parts of the game. I lost count of the times my view was obscured by my other characters - sometimes even during talk segements. One of the final puzzles where you needed to step on floor tiles in a specific way was made more frustrating by the claustrophobic camera.

It was a shame that Knights didn't have the polish of other 3D games like Zelda or Mario or even Ico.

Anyway, I'll definitely be playing through this game again. My faith has been restored somewhat in the opinion of the majority. A warning about the slow start would have been nice though.

	30-06-2005 11:54									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Bkeela After loudly denigrating this game for awhile, I now have to make an embarrassing retraction.

But why didn't you bump the thread where my posts convinced you to give KotOR another try? That would have shown more clearly that listening to me on all game issues brings happiness.

	30-06-2005 13:02									#101
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Well, it was actually Gaming Steve that convinced me to stick with the game. He did a review of KOTOR in one of his podcasts

	30-06-2005 23:06									#102
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Ah come on, you said it sucked, I pointed out you were wrong, and the very next post you were playing it. Give me some credit here!

	01-07-2005 04:04									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Bkeela The game turned around for me during the incredible plot twist, when I learnt to true identity of my character. Everything suddenly made sense.

Doh!

quote: Originally posted by Bkeela It was almost as satisfying as the climax of Fight Club, when Ed Norton discovers he is infact Tyler Durden.

Doh!

	01-07-2005 09:24									#104
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To be fair, asleep, someone else already ruined the game in some other thread

	01-07-2005 11:58									#105
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Spoiler tags are your friend BKeela.

	03-07-2005 14:01									#106
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I forget, in KOTOR 1 can you Force-Choke fools? I played KOTOR 2 so often that I can't remember the original. Force Choke is always a fun thing to do, especially when you watch them squirm before you crush their trachea.



But steering this back on track. I definitely think that KOTOR1 was INFINITELY better than KOTOR2. It isn't as "broken"...its still fun to play tho...

	04-07-2005 04:37									#107
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That people didn't see the twist is unbelievable. The computer simply says it all. Quite frankly it's impossible not to know who you are unless you're just hacking and slashing your way through the game, not listening to conversations and cut-scenes.

And about Bastila... If you consider the constant babbling of Bastila, well it's just too obvious that she'd fall for the dark side.

I seem to be the only one around here that doesn't find KOTOR such a great game. It's okay I'll give you that, otherwise I wouldn't have finished it. On the other hand the combat is so repetitive, and there's not much freedom in the game. (probably because it's also a console game)

Only dying twice or thrice in an entire game is not very challenging, unlike BG when I died 10/hour

	05-07-2005 10:45									#108
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quote: That people didn't see the twist is unbelievable. The computer simply says it all. Quite frankly it's impossible not to know who you are unless you're just hacking and slashing your way through the game, not listening to conversations and cut-scenes.

You know, I've heard others say this and I have to say, hindsight sure is 20/20 . Plenty of people who have played the game in depth, listening to all conversations were shocked by the twist.

Either it looks obvious now, or you are really good at picking up plot twists. Either way, I'll have to say, hindsight is 20/20.

	05-07-2005 17:01									#109
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I think its a really beutiful game, even after all these years. Each planet has its own special flavour to it. I found i could easily spend hours watching my gf play it. Great game and one i will endevour to finish soon

I'm not sure i will get the second KOTOR, this one is just about perfect and maybe the second will tarnish the experience of the first then again i keep looking for it in the budget labels of my local store, so i probably will.

	05-07-2005 22:41									#110
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All these years? Did I sleep for a *really* long time last night?

	06-07-2005 13:48									#111
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2 years? i think i've had it two years........anyway thanks to Kuciwalker i've now started playing it again.

Last time i got about 80% through as a 'good' guy. Sadly i've long deleted that save game, so now i've started over with a scoundrel.

Han - "scoundrel? i like the sound of that. I reckon you could do with more scoundrels in your life".

Leia - "I happen to like nice men".

Han - "I'm a nice man".

i'll play it as a 'han-solo' type rather than a 'luke' i think. I've already picked up darkside points for selling the serum to the gangsta - the profit margin was better. And i'm winding up Garth as much as possible.

What i like about this game is that it is, in a way, one of the rare examples of a game that works well with a strong movie type feel to it.

	06-07-2005 21:58									#112
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Indeed, the backgrounds and graphics were beautiful. They have some good designers; maybe a day/night-cycle and different weather could've made it even better though

	07-07-2005 15:15									#113
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Threadjacking, but what does "w00tly" mean?

I suspect it's along the lines of L8 (for "late"), but if those "00":s are zeroes (or pronounced "naught") I can't figure it out...

Carolus

	07-07-2005 16:15									#114
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It's pronounced wootly, and it means "awesome" or "cool".

	07-07-2005 16:31									#115
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...just like pwn is pronounced porn (by everyone except the internationally-recognised weirdo DrSpike) and means "to take up the ass" (metaphorically).

On topic (before rah arrives), yes, KotOR is w00tly , but KotOR II wasn't enough of an improvement.

	07-07-2005 17:16									#116
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Was KotorII as good as Kotor? I dont mind it not improving on Kotor as i thinkthey got the first one just about perfect.

Anyway - i'm not exactly going to go full to the darkside this time around. But i've been more abrasive this time around, picking fights and being 'up for it' most of the time. I even chated up a sith officer and went to her party where they all got legless.

Fun game rightly one of the modern day 'classics' imho.

	08-07-2005 00:05									#117
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york ...just like pwn is pronounced porn (by everyone except the internationally-recognised weirdo DrSpike) and means "to take up the ass" (metaphorically). On topic (before rah arrives), yes, KotOR is w00tly , but KotOR II wasn't enough of an improvement.

Actually, my thread on this important gaming topic showed that my pronunciation is the norm, and anyone that pronounces it porn is clearly sexually frustrated.

	08-07-2005 03:46									#118
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quote: just like pwn is pronounced porn

No it isn't. It's pronounced P-own.

	08-07-2005 10:01									#119
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Was KotorII as good as Kotor? I dont mind it not improving on Kotor as i thinkthey got the first one just about perfect. Anyway - i'm not exactly going to go full to the darkside this time around. But i've been more abrasive this time around, picking fights and being 'up for it' most of the time. I even chated up a sith officer and went to her party where they all got legless. Fun game rightly one of the modern day 'classics' imho.

I just finished Kotor2 (for the 3rd time) a few hours ago. I did the entire game in like a week. .

I'd say Kotor is perhaps slightly better than Kotor2, but only slightly. Really they are about the same. In fact, there aren't that many differences. And most of the differences are in Kotor2's favour. Like building your own items, breaking down items. Containers that show as empty. If only the ending didn't feel so rushed. The story is more complex, but consequently some parts seem a little confusing. Even with high influences with most of my NPC's. This story line is more grey than the white and black storyline of Kotor1.

for instance. maybe someone can answer this.

spoiler(highlight to read): I still don't understand the deal with Atris after Kreia meets with her (after Handmaiden brings her back to Telos). Is she a sith? Kreia mentions awakening her. I realize she had a lot of anger and love for the exile. But she didn't exactly seem like a sith. And then later in her conversation with you, she mentions attacking and crushing the sith, but then when you defeat her, she says it will be you who defeats the sith, not her as she had hoped. Is she a good guy or bad guy? That's basically what I'm asking.

	08-07-2005 10:21									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident for instance. maybe someone can answer this. spoiler(highlight to read): I still don't understand the deal with Atris after Kreia meets with her (after Handmaiden brings her back to Telos). Is she a sith? Kreia mentions awakening her. I realize she had a lot of anger and love for the exile. But she didn't exactly seem like a sith. And then later in her conversation with you, she mentions attacking and crushing the sith, but then when you defeat her, she says it will be you who defeats the sith, not her as she had hoped. Is she a good guy or bad guy? That's basically what I'm asking.

spoiler(highlight to read): Her arrogance, anger, and love turned her to the Dark Side. When she began to listen to Sith teachings for more understanding of the new Sith threat, she fell right into the trap. She is just a Dark Sided Jedi that hates the Sith, merely because her former Jedi-self opposed the Sith, and she must keep some of her old identity. When you defeat her and then show her mercy, she redeems herself and becomes light-side once again.