02-11-2004 02:55									#31
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Quebec is barely a "have not" province. Per capita it receives less than any of the other net beneficiaries IIRC

Pfft

	02-11-2004 02:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I've never understood why you Canucks put up with all the **** I see coming from Quebecers - why haven't you told them to just buzz off yet?

Stop stirring up trouble over a situation you have no hope of understanding.

	02-11-2004 03:00									#33
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BC has just slipped into net beneficiary status IIRC (was over the line for most of my life). And Sask doesn't count because it sucks.

	02-11-2004 03:02									#34
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Good 'ol PEI...

	02-11-2004 03:15									#35
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse BC has just slipped into net beneficiary status IIRC (was over the line for most of my life). And Sask doesn't count because it sucks.

The NDP ran it into the ground, because they don't know how to govern.

And I agree about Sask...what kind of government do they have again?

hmm. patterns...

	02-11-2004 03:16									#36
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BC? "Liberal" govt...

	02-11-2004 03:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse BC? "Liberal" govt...

Their "Liberal" government is really conservatives, and it's under their leadership that BC is now becoming a "have" province again.

It was under the NDP that they tanked.

	02-11-2004 04:18									#38
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Stop stirring up trouble over a situation you have no hope of understanding.

	02-11-2004 04:36									#39
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I prefer Quebec in Canada, but not at any price.

As to separatism - We discussed the dishonesty of Quebec separatists on this board not too long ago. Separatists CAN NOT get a clear majority to a clear question. The game is done barring some calamitious mismanagement by the feds. Quite frankly, western separation is a much greater concern to me. Unlike Quebec, the west can actually afford to do it and not just threaten.

Last edited by Wezil on 02-11-2004 at 06:36

	02-11-2004 04:41									#40
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Wow! Instead of Canada being somewhat dominated by America, the 2000+ Commonwealth of Independent Canadian States can be completly dominated by America!

	02-11-2004 04:43									#41
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Huh?

	02-11-2004 04:46									#42
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What do I think?

I'd like to keep Quebec as part of Canada. I think one thing the Quebeckers forget is that Canada has been good for them, and has helped preserve their distinct culture.

Even though I'm sure some of the BCers resent having to learn French, and not Mandarin, or Punjabi, which would be much more useful. Tagalog would also be on my list ahead of French.

I also think that Canada owes quite a bit to Quebec, and that without Quebec, would be much less than we are now.

I just don't see any justification for separation, even in Quebec, the nebulous sovereignty association seems to admit most want to keep close ties to the rest of Canada.

	02-11-2004 05:26									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil Huh?

If Quebec splits off, that's just one more trade advantage to the US. Especially if it prompts other provinces to leave.

	02-11-2004 05:34									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If Quebec splits off, that's just one more trade advantage to the US. Especially if it prompts other provinces to leave.

If you are implying that more leverage can be exerted against smaller trading partners, you are right. This is one of the distinct advantages of staying intact.

If you are implying the separating provinces will move closer to the the US politically (even joining), that is very unlikely. They wouldn't want to join and you (the Republicans anyway...) wouldn't have us.

Separation in this country is only a serious threat when the feds screw up in a big way. The dog has very little bite. It just gives us one more thing to moan and 'worry' about.

	02-11-2004 06:19									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I've never understood why you Canucks put up with all the **** I see coming from Quebecers - why haven't you told them to just buzz off yet?

I didn't expect anything else from a moron like you. You have absolutely no clue about the political, legal, cultural and historical factors involved and yet you come here trolling like a *****.

	02-11-2004 06:21									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil I prefer Quebec in Canada, but not at any price. As to seperatism - We discussed the dishonesty of Quebec seperatists on this board not too long ago. Seperatists CAN NOT get a clear majority to a clear question. The game is done barring some calamitious mismanagement by the feds. Quite frankly, western seperation is a much greater concern to me. Unlike Quebec, the west can actually afford to do it and not just threaten.

The question was clear. It seemed like only people outside of Quebec are unable to understand it.

BTW, if Quebec can't get a clear majority, no one can. What's a clear majority? Even the Supreme Court doesn't know it.

	02-11-2004 06:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Pfft

Asher you just proved his point. Quebec receives more because its population is much larger, not because it is that much poorer.

	02-11-2004 06:24									#48
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> 50%

	02-11-2004 06:29									#49
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Oncle - I looked for the earlier thread in the archives but it apparently didn't make it.

As Asher points out - a clear majority is easy.

A clear question is admittedly tougher, but we could start with an honest debate, not the crap peddled by the separatists.

	02-11-2004 06:33									#50
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quote: Originally posted by dejon We can forgive the have-not Easterners because we know the Feds bled them dry of natural resources, just like they [try to] do to BC and AB. Urban Quebec is not a problem - they are doing fine and have kept the separatists at bay. The problem is rural Quebec, which blames English-speaking Canada for their lot in life, for reasons I don't understand.

There is the fact that people in rural areas - everywhere - tend to be more conservative, i.e. less tolerant to minorities, more (primitively, not in a Social Contract sense) nationalistic, etc.

In this case, this natural tendency has been nurtured and increased by the economic domination of the province by the English minority. Most people over 60 resent the old days in factories where all workers were French while the owners and bosses were English, etc. On top of that, there is the political memory of the fierce anti-union war waged by capital owners up until the 50s and 60s; in the RoC that fight was purely between classes, but in Quebec it could be related to a clearly distinguishable ethnic discrepancy.

Though these prejudices are not justified anymore under the current situation, old hatreds tend to perdure longer than their causes.

	02-11-2004 06:39									#51
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You point out yet another reason why separation will not happen. Those with the most legitimate PAST gripes are aging fast.

	02-11-2004 06:41									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil A clear question is admittedly tougher, but we could start with an honest debate, not the crap peddled by the separatists.

Maybe, but I would like if people told me what the fuss is about the "unclear" question. Here, if you ask some randomly picked persons, they'll all tell you that they know what they're voting for, and that they'll assume the consequences of it - of which they are aware more than you'd expect-.

Some outside of Quebec seem to think that we are brainwashed, that we aren't being told the 'truth', etc. That's ridiculous: the anti-separatist lobby is super-powerful, super-rich and use every opportunity they have to pound on separatists - even running campaigns outside of Quebec to hinder PQ governments in their international partnerships.

	02-11-2004 06:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil You point out yet another reason why separation will not happen. Those with the most legitimate PAST gripes are aging fast.

Right. After being fueled from past and understandable gripes in the 70s, the separatists are having problems "reinventing" their position to make it attractive.

In the beginning of the 90s, constitutional frustration played a big role, but its 'boring' and 'technical' nature made it fade more quickly.

Despite all of this, though, a majority of French Canadians would vote YES (56-58%) and are only held back by the Anglo minority. The national sentiment is here to stay, and I don't see it significantly going down in the next 10 or 20 years.

	02-11-2004 07:00									#54
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BTW, I didn't know that you were Quebecois Spec.

Now that means the list is:

Oncle Boris
Spec
Richelieu
Nostromo
And KH, who is AFAIK Anglo-Quebecois, right?

	02-11-2004 07:07									#55
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Funny how Asher complains about Quebecers being whiners when Albertans are the biggest whingers in North America.

Western Rednecks
Liberal goverments for the foreseeable future.
Western Rednecks annoyance at this.
French Canadian women.

Quebec is far and away the best province. The rest of Canada is anal retentive central.

I remember the first time I went to Quebec and asked in my hotel where one went to smoke. They asked me if I was mad, I replied that English Canada was.

	02-11-2004 07:36									#56
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Hook in the water!

	02-11-2004 07:37									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Would you mind if Quebec became independant? If so, why?

Yes.

I would mind for several reasons. There are the financial ones, that the instability during the transition period would inflict a lot of hardship on many Canadians across the country, but the biggest reasons for me are emotional.

I think it would be a shame if this country failed because we couldn't get over our differences for long enough to build a better Confederation, one which 99% of Canadians are happy to be a part of.

I don't think it would bode well for many other areas of the world where the consequences of not being able to live together could be much more severe than they would be here.

Finally, I'll deny this if asked later, but I like Quebec and most Quebecers (cois) that I have ever met. To a certain extent, some of us in the ROC treat seperatism as a rejection of 'us'. It's seldom nice to be rejected by people you like.

	02-11-2004 07:38									#58
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You redneck, you!!

Take it that you do agree on the women thing, right?

	02-11-2004 07:40									#59
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Vavavoom!

	02-11-2004 07:45									#60
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Englishers are all teh gay!! Vive la hotties.

quote: I think it would be a shame if this country failed because we couldn't get over our differences for long enough to build a better Confederation, one which 99% of Canadians are happy to be a part of.