02-11-2004 08:10									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris BTW, I didn't know that you were Quebecois Spec. Now that means the list is: Oncle Boris Spec Richelieu Nostromo And KH, who is AFAIK Anglo-Quebecois, right?

I'm Anglo-Quebecois.

	02-11-2004 08:51									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Funny how Asher complains about Quebecers being whiners when Albertans are the biggest whingers in North America. Western Rednecks Liberal goverments for the foreseeable future. Western Rednecks annoyance at this. French Canadian women.

Canadian "chicks" = [internal contradiction]
Québécois chicks
True French hotties
Anally retentive young males

	02-11-2004 08:58									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Funny how Asher complains about Quebecers being whiners when Albertans are the biggest whingers in North America.

It's whining when you're the leach, it's complaining when you're the main contributer to equalization payments that pays the bills of virtually every other province.

Let's face it: Canada would be better off with Quebec gone financially, and worse off if Alberta left.

With them gone, we can safely get rid of the bilingual bullshit. Maybe legislate mandatory nutrition and dietary information on all food products, instead of having, say, "Coca Cola Classic" in French.

Quebec is preventing the rest of Canada from being fit.

	02-11-2004 09:00									#64
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But better off with Alberta's resources nationalised.

	02-11-2004 09:01									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon

Oh please, you're not even Canadian.

Go start a Kiwi club thread.

	02-11-2004 09:03									#66
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quote: Originally posted by joncha But better off with Alberta's resources nationalised.

No Liberal would have the balls to try that again. They'd lose them very quickly, if they did.

	02-11-2004 09:10									#67
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One more reason I don't vote Liberal.

	02-11-2004 09:33									#68
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's whining when you're the leach, it's complaining when you're the main contributer to equalization payments that pays the bills of virtually every other province.

Quebec and Ontario contribute the most to the equalisation payments. Ontario gets nothing back, Quebec gets some money back.

The idea that Quebec is a leech is just stupid.

Quebecers pay taxes just like everyone else.

	02-11-2004 09:37									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Quebec and Ontario contribute the most to the equalisation payments. Ontario gets nothing back, Quebec gets some money back. The idea that Quebec is a leech is just stupid. Quebecers pay taxes just like everyone else.

You may want to look into how net equalization payments work, before you start misleading people.

It doesn't matter if they contribute more gross, when they have SO many more people. In the end, every single person GETS more money back in equalization payments than they pay. Further, what each person pays in Quebec to equalization payments is about half as much as what Albertans pay, and they don't get as much as they pay back.

Which one has a net negative flow (hereafter the 'leech'), and which one has a net positive flow?

The exercise is left to the reader.

	02-11-2004 09:58									#70
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Asher, you're the one misleading people.

If 10 people contribute to the pot, and the money gets divided among eight of the 10, this doesn't mean that the other two were the only ones contributing to the pot.

	02-11-2004 10:00									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Asher, you're the one misleading people. If 10 people contribute to the pot, and the money gets divided among eight of the 10, this doesn't mean that the other two were the only ones contributing to the pot.

No, but that's not my point.

If you contribute $5 to the pot and get $10 -- every time...and someone else contributes $10 and gets $5 -- every time...which one is leeching?

I'm unsure why you're fixated on the gross equalization payments, because they're meaningless. Every province contributes to it, and then that money is distributed among the provinces.

I'm only concerned with net equalization payments -- where Alberta and Ontario are the only provinces who don't get what they put in, consistently. Alberta's gap between what they contribute and what they get is enormous.

Quebec gets billions of dollars every year as freebies from the government with equlization payments, and Alberta loses billions of dollars every year to fund it. And still, Quebec whines and hates Alberta.

They shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.

	02-11-2004 10:05									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Their "Liberal" government is really conservatives, and it's under their leadership that BC is now becoming a "have" province again. It was under the NDP that they tanked.

No,
Under the BC "Liberals", BC has gone from a have province to a have not province.

See:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/equalization/

	02-11-2004 10:09									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai No, Under the BC "Liberals", BC has gone from a have province to a have not province.

They were a "have not" province before the "Liberals" took over...

They're now approaching being a "have" province again..

	02-11-2004 10:10									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No, but that's not my point. If you contribute $5 to the pot and get $10 -- every time...and someone else contributes $10 and gets $5 -- every time...which one is leeching?

I wouldn't use the word "leeching". A leech is a parasite that feeds off another body and gives nothing in return. Quebec contributes to Canada as a whole and to the equalisation payments so to call them a leech is simply wrong.


I agree with you that Quebec shouldn't be complaining, and the majority of Quebecers realise how much they get from Ottawa. Some of them are willing to sacrifice economic benefits to achieve their nationalist dreams, and some of them want a free ride.

	02-11-2004 10:16									#75
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Quebec is teh sux

	02-11-2004 10:17									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher They were a "have not" province before the "Liberals" took over... They're now approaching being a "have" province again..

Wrong,

These stats prove the BC "Liberals" have screwed BC:

Equalisation payments received by BC

93-94 0
94-95 0
95-96 0
96-97 0
97-98 0
98-99 0
99-00 125
00-01 0
01-02 195
02-03 0
03-04 332
04-05 824

From: http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

The Liberals were elected in May 2001 and since then they have driven BC into the red with massive deficits and turned BC into a "have-not" province.

	02-11-2004 10:20									#77
	Increase Your PM Length

I stand corrected.

British Columbia is FUBAR.

If only they could look at Alberta for inspiration.

The secret to their success lies offshore...untapped.

	02-11-2004 10:32									#78
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm having some fun with StatCan stats (latest): http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/indi02k.htm

Unemployment:
BC: 7.1% (65.3% participation)
Quebec: 8.3% (66.1% participation)
Alberta: 4.8% (73.3% participation)

Average Weekly Earnings:
BC: $694.24
Quebec: $657.13
Alberta: $734.04

	02-11-2004 10:38									#79
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No wonder Albertans like Bush.

	02-11-2004 10:41									#80
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http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/econ15.htm

GDP Growth:
BC: $120.9B (1999) -> $142.4B (2003) [17.8% from 1999-2003]
Quebec: $210.8B (1999) -> $254.2B (2003) [20.5% from 1999-2003]
Alberta: $117B (1999) -> $170.6B (2003) [45.8% from 1999-2003]

GDP per Capita (2003)
BC: $28,812
Quebec: $27,947
Alberta: $53,290

	02-11-2004 10:48									#81
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai I wouldn't use the word "leeching". A leech is a parasite that feeds off another body and gives nothing in return. Quebec contributes to Canada as a whole and to the equalisation payments so to call them a leech is simply wrong.

I wouldn't say leech either, but do you think Quebec pays more into Canada pp than Ontario or Alberta?

This is what will be drawn out pp in transfers for 2004-05.

Quebec 13.2Bln, $1757 pp
Ontario 16.4Bln, $1322 pp
Alberta 4.2Bln, $1321 pp

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html

btw, you'll notice that all provinces get it. The idea behind it is to equalise the potential tax base. Alberta and Ontario have a larger pp tax base, ergo, we get fewer dollars back. PEI has very little tax base (compartively) therefore they draw over $2K pp (along with a few others).

Edit: I should really differentiate equalization ($10Bln/year) from transfers ($51Bln/year).

The point stands though, does Quebec pay in enough to make up the difference pp in what it takes out?

	02-11-2004 10:55									#82
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btw, I'm a little bit impressed that Saskatchewan is about to join the haves. They've been CCF or NDP for a good portion of the time that Alberta has been Social Credit or Tory. We went balls out on oil (and have more of it, most likely) they have not encouraged exploration (but they have encouraged other mineral extraction).

Half of Saskatchewan's native sons and daughters moved to Alberta (so the story goes) but still they plod along and are managing to get things done.

Nova Scotia is next.

	02-11-2004 12:29									#83
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quote: It's whining when you're the leach, it's complaining when you're the main contributer to equalization payments that pays the bills of virtually every other province.

We've had this argument several times before, and each time you seem to forget about how democracy works. Alberta contributes more to equalization payments than other provinces largely because it sits on a pile of oil.

Alberta paying more is just like richer Canadian citizens paying more tax than poor people. Hence, your entire position is basically yet another childish tax whine.

	02-11-2004 12:34									#84
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Not really. he does have a point that for Quebec to complain about the fiscal arrangements is a little bit absurd, when they gain while others pay.

	02-11-2004 14:22									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris BTW, I didn't know that you were Quebecois Spec. Now that means the list is: Oncle Boris Spec Richelieu Nostromo And KH, who is AFAIK Anglo-Quebecois, right?

Im also from Quebec, live near Gatineau close to Richelieu I think,...

	02-11-2004 17:09									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Sad, but true.

	02-11-2004 17:11									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris BTW, I didn't know that you were Quebecois Spec. Now that means the list is: Oncle Boris Spec Richelieu Nostromo And KH, who is AFAIK Anglo-Quebecois, right?

Half and half. I grew up anglo though.

	02-11-2004 17:19									#88
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Why are some Canadians so intolerant with other people's views about Canada. In Canadian Bacon, all the Canadians were nice and so helpful.

	02-11-2004 17:24									#89
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If other people would do their homework before expressing their opinions then their input would be welcome.

	02-11-2004 17:25									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Quebec is teh sux

Yeah, and this graph is about raw numbers.

I've already discussed it with Imran, and Quebec is actually just fine when you look it with GDP growth per capita.