03-11-2004 13:58									#61
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Bush is ahead by 3 in Nevada.

He's also up in Iowa, NM and he's only down by 15K in Wisconsin.

So, given that the absentee ballots are likely to weigh in Bush's favour given that many of them are servicemen abroad, I can't see any of these states going to Kerry.

Plus you have Ohio.

When will Kerry concede?

Oops.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5650832/

	03-11-2004 13:58									#62
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However, all votes should be counted. It really is that simple - when I went to vote, I was mysteriously not found on registration rolls. They gave me one of those Provisional Ballots. Even though my vote has little effect, I'd be quite angry is they just threw it away simply because it wont change things.

One would think supporting counting all votes would be prerequistite to supporting democracy

	03-11-2004 13:59									#63
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MSNBC has officially called Ohio red.

	03-11-2004 14:00									#64
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NBC called Ohio for Bush hours ago.

	03-11-2004 14:00									#65
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Yeah, it's important that all the votes are counted.

	03-11-2004 14:01									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai I think the point UR is making is that in the US system, who wins the popular vote doesn't matter. In theory, if the uncounted votes give Kerry ohio then he's the president regardless of the popular vote.

UR would have a point if Kerry would make a change to win the Electoral vote. But he doesn't since he's behind by 150.000 by now.
Gore was only behind 500 in the electoral vote in Florida. That's what I call too close too call.

	03-11-2004 14:02									#67
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All the votes should be counted

	03-11-2004 14:02									#68
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quote: One would think supporting counting all votes would be prerequistite to supporting democracy

A concession does not preclude counting these ballots for an accurate count.

	03-11-2004 14:03									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Everyone: My home state appears to have rejected Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., by a few thousand votes. Assuming Kerry loses as well, that's almost as big a black eye as failing to regain the White House for the Democrats. I did my civic duty and voted a split ticket. It appears I voted with the majority in only one of three national races. But, hey, I did better with state- and local-level issues. Heh. Like that's going to be of any comfort to *former* Sen. Daschle. Hmm. The terrorists really did win on Sept. 11, 2001. We just don't know it yet. They've divided the West against itself. The right-wingers in America and the lefties in Europe are pouring more fuel on the fire. I do believe I will live to see the destruction of the United States of America — as well as other Western nations — in my lifetime. Perhaps not the *physical* annhilation thereof, but of the ideas upon which they were founded. Ah, hell. It's late. Just got back from 10.25 hours at the office. Waxing a bit philosophical at the time of the morning probably isn't the brightest thing I should be doing. Such is life. Gatekeeper

Daschle seems to have been ousted from the outside.

I want to know what the big deal was with him, the whole national Republican party went after him for some reason.

	03-11-2004 14:04									#70
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Toronto Star report: "A large voter turnout delayed results for several hours last night, with voters in a precinct in Knox County still casting ballots at 3 a.m., some after an eight-hour wait. "

to those voters for waiting in line that long.

	03-11-2004 14:04									#71
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Of course it's important that all votes are counted.
But that's no difference to 8 and 12 and 16 years ago.
But why could California be given to Kerry without counting any vote? Because every sane person knows it is for Kerry.

Every vote needs to be counted for the OFFICIAL result.
Not for the day-after-result, if it's clear enough.
Last time it was not clear enough. Now it is clear enough.

	03-11-2004 14:04									#72
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Gore/Bush: - Gore won popular vote - Gore and Bush were 500-something votes seperated in Florida. GORE HAD A POINT! Kerry/Bush: - Bush wins popular vote - Bush leads by 144.000 in Ohio KERRY HAS NO POINT AT ALL!

You forgot that Gore's count included absentee and provisional ballots.

	03-11-2004 14:04									#73
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Ted, we simply despise him.

	03-11-2004 14:04									#74
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The networks that have called Ohio for Bush are not calling Nevada, and the ones that held out on Ohio called Nevada for Bush.

	03-11-2004 14:05									#75
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy UR would have a point if Kerry would make a change to win the Electoral vote. But he doesn't since he's behind by 150.000 by now. Gore was only behind 500 in the electoral vote in Florida. That's what I call too close too call.

I'm not sure at what point that the 500 number came up. Maybe it was the next day. It's still early in the night to fine tune all the stragglers coming in.

I seem to recall that Tuesday night 2000 that there was a 100K or so gap between the two candidates.

	03-11-2004 14:05									#76
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It's because they want to pretend that the election is still in dispute.

	03-11-2004 14:06									#77
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Those absentee ballots made a difference for a few thousands. Not for 150.000.

	03-11-2004 14:06									#78
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by CyberShy
Of course it's important that all votes are counted.
But that's no difference to 8 and 12 and 16 years ago.
But why could California be given to Kerry without counting any vote? Because every sane person knows it is for Kerry. [/QUOTE

True, but the *US Government* isn't going to just give California to Kerry just because of that

Question: What would happen if Kerry conceeded and it turns out he won?

	03-11-2004 14:07									#79
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Those absentee ballots made a difference for a few thousands. Not for 150.000.

Maybe not. Then again, who knows at this point?

	03-11-2004 14:07									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Ted, we simply despise him.

Why though?

	03-11-2004 14:07									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar [QUOTE] Originally posted by CyberShy Of course it's important that all votes are counted. But that's no difference to 8 and 12 and 16 years ago. But why could California be given to Kerry without counting any vote? Because every sane person knows it is for Kerry. [/QUOTE True, but the *US Government* isn't going to just give California to Kerry just because of that Question: What would happen if Kerry conceeded and it turns out he won?

Then they'd call him a flip-flopper if he tried to claim his victory.

	03-11-2004 14:07									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai to those voters for waiting in line that long.

	03-11-2004 14:08									#83
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quote: I want to know what the big deal was with him, the whole national Republican party went after him for some reason.

Captain Obstructionist?

Good riddance!

	03-11-2004 14:09									#84
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quote: Question: What would happen if Kerry conceeded and it turns out he won?

it would be a shame.
But in 1996 / 1992 / 1988 / 1984 / 1980 / etc. that was no reason to announce a winner anyway.

quote: I seem to recall that Tuesday night 2000 that there was a 100K or so gap between the two candidates.

For sure not, 1200 or 1440 comes to my mind,
I'll try to google it up.

	03-11-2004 14:09									#85
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Somebody educate me on what the big deal was with Daschle besides calling him a punk!

I just don't know!

	03-11-2004 14:10									#86
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quote: Then again, who knows at this point?

You don't need the precise number to do an order of magnitude estimate.

I'm sure they would have told us if there were 10 times the usual number of ballots, because that would have gotten Democratic hopes up even more.

	03-11-2004 14:12									#87
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quote: Somebody educate me on what the big deal was with Daschle besides calling him a punk! I just don't know!

He was the house leader when the Senate was deadlocked, and defeated every republican bill.

	03-11-2004 14:12									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Somebody educate me on what the big deal was with Daschle besides calling him a punk! I just don't know!

He isn't a very constructive person. Mostly he organizes filibusters and obstructions against Republicans. Hence, they hate him.

	03-11-2004 14:12									#89
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http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/e...magtimeline.htm

quote: 2 a.m. Chaos. A sample recount turns up 19 more votes for Gore. The Palm Beach County Canvassing Board votes 2 to 1 for a full recount of all 460,000 ballots. A manual recount of all ballots, says County Commissioner Carol Roberts, “clearly would affect the results of the national election.”

this is the first thing I found. Only a 19 votes difference in 2000....!

	03-11-2004 14:13									#90
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Ted:

They went after him because, as the Senate Minority Leader, he was pretty much the biggest face of the Democratic Party outside of John Kerry.

In the last three weeks of the race, Thune and his backers literally *saturated* the airwaves and newspapers with advertising. Daschle, for some reason, never went horribly negative (Thune did almost from the get-go) until the last month or so. He never trumpeted the fact that major newspapers endorsed him (Thune did). His ads seemed to have declined in number in the home stretch as well, although that might simply be my perception since Thune's skyrocketed (IOW, Daschle's amount of advertising didn't change).

It'll be interesting to see if Thune can keep even half of the promises he made. He'll have six years to do so — more than enough time for the administration to ignore a freshman "follower" senator for three or so years (throwing a few bones here and there ... after all, he won, which is *all* the GOP cares about) before giving him a few more substantial bones in order to reinforce his reelection chances in 2008.

Numbers show Daschle spent $16 million or so on his reelection, while Thune spent $10 million. But Thune's numbers *don't* include all the third-party support he received. Daschle, for the most part, didn't want or get much outside help until the last few weeks.

All I can say right now is this: Thank God I'm a white man, because life's gonna get rougher for a lot of women and minorities. Just my opinion, of course. I did what I could for them, but it wasn't enough. Such is life. Now I shall sit back and record for posterity what takes place, so that future generations will know what came before them, so that they may learn from our mistakes and our successes.

Gatekeeper