03-11-2004 14:14									#91
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CNN:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOL...12/13/got.here/

quote: November 8: A series of early-morning events set the stage for a protracted presidential battle. First, by about 2:15 a.m., the major networks call Florida and the election for Bush. Gore, hearing that he probably will lose Florida by about 50,000 votes, calls the Texas governor and concedes.

Gore conceeded by a 50.000 difference (Estimate)
Right now the difference is 3 times as heigh (150.000) while the number of votes is lower.

	03-11-2004 14:14									#92
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/e...magtimeline.htm this is the first thing I found. Only a 19 votes difference in 2000....!

That's not what the quote said at all. When they did a sample recount, 19 votes turned up, ie 19 new votes for Gore were found.

	03-11-2004 14:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy CNN: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOL...12/13/got.here/ Gore conceeded by a 50.000 difference (Estimate) Right now the difference is 3 times as heigh (150.000) while the number of votes is lower.

And this one is what he heard the final difference would be.

	03-11-2004 14:15									#94
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http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMAT...000timeline.php
more:

quote: Morning The final margin of the Florida vote is reported to be 1,784 votes; Bush leads Gore 2,909,135 (48.8%) to 2,907,351 (48.8%) with other candidates receiving 139,616 votes (2.4%).

Only a 1784 difference. period.

	03-11-2004 14:16									#95
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That statistic worked.

	03-11-2004 14:17									#96
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Joncha, thanks for correcting me.
I think that last quote is correct. The difference was 1784 when they decided it to be too close to call.

	03-11-2004 14:17									#97
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Bit of a bugger that Bush won, but at least it doesn't seem to be too controversial yet. I'd rather have the people make the decision to impose Bush on the world for another 4 years than the Supreme Court.

Are there any indications that the Bush cabinet will change? Does Powell want to go on for another 4 years? Is Rummy too much of an embrassment to carry on?

	03-11-2004 14:18									#98
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Thus: Gore decides to not to conceed when there's a 1784 difference. That's not to be compared to the 150.000 difference in Ohio. period.

I declare Bush to be the winner.
Let's make it an official apolyton newsitem
I've waked all night long for a result

	03-11-2004 14:21									#99
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Thanks for the info everybody.


I think having a one party government is a very dangerous idea.

With no system of checks and balances in place, the opportunity for even more extremism becomes possible.

Daschle sounds like that last defense in this system.

Peter Jennings is spending alot of time right now discussing this very issue.

I think having the Congress with one party, and the President in another party, is the best setup. This was the case under my two favorite Presidents, Reagan and Clinton.

Go get 'em Obama!

	03-11-2004 14:21									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Toronto Star report: "A large voter turnout delayed results for several hours last night, with voters in a precinct in Knox County still casting ballots at 3 a.m., some after an eight-hour wait. " to those voters for waiting in line that long.

Damn straight.

	03-11-2004 14:22									#101
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I think democracy is a winner today!
Much people voted, much people wanted to line up for it.
If only the lawyers would not ruin it by not accepting clear results.

	03-11-2004 14:23									#102
	Suffering from ads?

Bush lost the independent vote big time.

This shows that his base got him his votes.

Unfortunatley the Democrats don't seem to have any base left.

	03-11-2004 14:27									#103
	Suffering from ads?

Look at Obama pimping it. Jungle Fever, etc.

Attachment: obama.jpg
This has been downloaded 106 time(s).

	03-11-2004 14:32									#104
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I think democracy is a winner today! Much people voted, much people wanted to line up for it. If only the lawyers would not ruin it by not accepting clear results.

Except, as I stated on the first page, most Bush supporters were horrible wrong on the facts.

They think Iraq was involved in 9/11 or at least had a substantial connection to Al Qaeda. They think the 9/11 Commission said this; it did not.

They think Iraq had WMDs when we went in; British, U.N., and U.S. intelligence reports agree it hasn't had any substantial WMDs for over 10 years.

Heck, someone that works with me thought the 9/11 comission was over before we went into Iraq.

I'm sorry, but I have grave reservations about an election where most of the people believed such blatant untruths.

I wish we had a multi-party system; Bush never would have been re-elected then.

I wish the media called Bush and his Administration when they lied; he never would have been re-elected then.

I wish we had truth in political advertising laws; Bush never would have been re-elected then.

I wish people would call and catch Karl Rove when he uses despicable tactics to win elections (in Ohio Democrats were called with recorded messages saying to vote for Kerry so that Gay Marriage can be legalized; they repeat "Gay Marriage" in that message about every sentence. There were also flyers sent out that told Democrats to vote on Wednesday); Bush would have had a lot more trouble winning.

I think Kerry's campaign could have done some of the above, but it shouldn't have to. He should have been able to run a fairly clean campaign, but that sort of thing is punished in American politics quite severely.

My trust in democracy in general is greatly weakened because of this election. We must take great pains to make sure that lying and all kind of deceit do not pay off politcally. Multiple voices being heard is also good; America desperately needs multi-party systems.

-Drachasor

	03-11-2004 14:34									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Bush lost the independent vote big time. This shows that his base got him his votes. Unfortunatley the Democrats don't seem to have any base left.

As I said, America is going to feel the force of a the majority impinging itself on minorities now.

*sigh* and can you believe the Republicans apparently want to pass even more tax cuts now?

-Drachasor

	03-11-2004 14:35									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Drachasor Except, as I stated on the first page, most Bush supporters were horrible wrong on the facts. They think Iraq was involved in 9/11 or at least had a substantial connection to Al Qaeda. They think the 9/11 Commission said this; it did not. They think Iraq had WMDs when we went in; British, U.N., and U.S. intelligence reports agree it hasn't had any substantial WMDs for over 10 years. Heck, someone that works with me thought the 9/11 comission was over before we went into Iraq. I'm sorry, but I have grave reservations about an election where most of the people believed such blatant untruths. I wish we had a multi-party system; Bush never would have been re-elected then. I wish the media called Bush and his Administration when they lied; he never would have been re-elected then. I wish we had truth in political advertising laws; Bush never would have been re-elected then. I wish people would call and catch Karl Rove when he uses despicable tactics to win elections (in Ohio Democrats were called with recorded messages saying to vote for Kerry so that Gay Marriage can be legalized; they repeat "Gay Marriage" in that message about every sentence. There were also flyers sent out that told Democrats to vote on Wednesday); Bush would have had a lot more trouble winning. I think Kerry's campaign could have done some of the above, but it shouldn't have to. He should have been able to run a fairly clean campaign, but that sort of thing is punished in American politics quite severely. My trust in democracy in general is greatly weakened because of this election. We must take great pains to make sure that lying and all kind of deceit do not pay off politcally. Multiple voices being heard is also good; America desperately needs multi-party systems. -Drachasor

Are you willing to bet that those calls were made in Ohio? They were made in Michigan.

For all you talk about ignorance, you seem to possess a fair amount of it yourself.

	03-11-2004 14:36									#107
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It's now a 145,000 gap in favor of Bush, and the Ohio Secretary of State said that the provisional ballots are in the neighborhood of 175, 000.

That would have to be one hell of a Kerry surge. More than ~16,000 ballots for Bush in that mess would win it for Bush.

	03-11-2004 14:38									#108
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ABC just reported that the Bush team is waiting on the media to declare him the winner before he claims victory.

	03-11-2004 14:39									#109
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But the media won't call Bush the winner because they're waiting for Kerry to concede.

	03-11-2004 14:40									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar But the media won't call Bush the winner because they're waiting for Kerry to concede.

But Kerry won't concede until they know they can't find 200,000 votes

	03-11-2004 14:41									#111
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And so we wait another 10 days.

On an entirely unrelated note.... do you want buy my Kerry shares Jag? Only 2 Eventas each.

	03-11-2004 14:42									#112
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Oh boy, it's starting to look like that you Americans missed your chance to correct the wrong.

If Bush really gets chosen, then it's official: American people are as stupid as my looks.

	03-11-2004 14:42									#113
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I proclaim that since Eventis was down while the elections occured, I was disenfranchised. I move for a refund.

	03-11-2004 14:42									#114
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It will have to be something like that -- they don't just have to cover the 145,000, they also have to cover every provisional ballot that comes up for Bush.

	03-11-2004 14:42									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Are you willing to bet that those calls were made in Ohio? They were made in Michigan. For all you talk about ignorance, you seem to possess a fair amount of it yourself.

Ok, but my overall points still stand.

Oh, and I wouldn't have taken that bet. I heard about the calls, but didn't remember exactly where they were (I just added my home state in there largely because I am exhausted after being up for 30 hours now).

That's the only criticism you have of my entire post? (IMHO, it is pretty minor).

Oh, and I am not entirely sure those tactics in particular were planned by Rove, but they are his kind of style (emulations or inspired by what he does at least). What he did to McCain in 2000 is horrible.

-Drachasor

	03-11-2004 14:43									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I proclaim that since Eventis was down while the elections occured, I was disenfranchised. I move for a refund.

Seconded. All in favour?

	03-11-2004 14:44									#117
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Oh boy, it's starting to look like that you Americans missed your chance to correct the wrong. If Bush really gets chosen, then it's official: American people are as stupid as my looks.

Ignorant; most of the Bush voters were horribly ignorant. A failure of the media and of the political system.

I understand where you are coming from though, and I know that most of the world will take your view of this.

Bush simply is not going to be able to unite the Nation or the World in his second term.

-Drachasor

	03-11-2004 14:44									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Drachasor Ok, but my overall points still stand. Oh, and I wouldn't have taken that bet. I heard about the calls, but didn't remember exactly where they were (I just added my home state in there largely because I am exhausted after being up for 30 hours now). That's the only criticism you have of my entire post? (IMHO, it is pretty minor). Oh, and I am not entirely sure those tactics in particular were planned by Rove, but they are his kind of style (emulations or inspired by what he does at least). What he did to McCain in 2000 is horrible. -Drachasor

It's Rove's fault. It's Bush's fault. It's ignorant voters fault. Does Kerry fit anywhere in there for you?

	03-11-2004 14:45									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's Rove's fault. It's Bush's fault. It's ignorant voters fault. Does Kerry fit anywhere in there for you?

Kerry who? It was all Howard Dean's fault. Or Michael Moore's.

	03-11-2004 14:47									#120
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Drach:

First of all, as you're willing to admit, those tactics were likely not planned by Rove. I think that an 8-year-old could make flyers telling people to vote on November 3rd. I also doubt that any serious damage was intended, or done by those flyers. If you saw a flyer like that posted somewhere, would you think it was a brilliang Rovian scheme, or would you think that it was a joke? And also, just how ****ing dumb do you think Black people are? Are they not smart enough to know when election day is?