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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why would the group devoted to relativism, vote for any moral? |
You don't understand the left. They are devoted to people being able to do what they want so long as it doesn't harm another person.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Please, Drach. Leave at once. Otherwise, get real and really listen to what Republicans have to say as opposed to the what the conspiracy mongers (Michael Moore, for example) say they say. |
I don't like Michael Moore nor do I agree with what he thinks.
Stop trying to lump everyone into the same group.
I also like Moderate Republicans and fiscally responsible republicans are decent amount (though I don't agree with them). Bush isn't one.
-Drachasor
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imacowmoo 3-:-o
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You dont understand the Right.
They just want to live in peace and be left alone by the government without fear of there lifestyle being regulated (eg: Hunting)
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why not put the child up for adoption, and make sure the girl is removed from the abuse? |
There is no reason to carry it to term. There is no logical reason for abortions before brains are active to be illegal.
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You lie, Kerry's position is that he wants a health clause added to the bill. What this means is that all partial birth abortions will become justified under this clause.
This is why the senate committee spent so long establishing that there is no medical condition that requires a partial birth abortion. |
The life of the mother can be in danger. It can and does happen.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by imacowmoo 3-:-o
You dont understand the Right.
They just want to live in peace and be left alone by the government without fear of there lifestyle being regulated (eg: Hunting) |
Those are the libertarians, the Far Right want to dictate their moral views on other people.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Drach, we seem to agree that when one moves to the left of Kerry we find ourselves deep into the land of socialism and Marxism. |
I gave extreme examples to counter your point. You are mischaraterizing my arguement.
-Drachasor
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imacowmoo 3-:-o
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Those are the libertarians, the Far Right want to dictate their moral views on other people.
-Drachasor |
As opposed to the far, communist left?
Just what are you getting at?
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by imacowmoo 3-:-o
As opposed to the far, communist left?
Just what are you getting at? |
As opposed to the moderate and left that agree on more moral issues than the moderate and right. Most people want legalized abortion, most people support a marriage-like status for gay couples, most people do not want the religious right telling them what is right and wrong.
-Drachasor
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imacowmoo 3-:-o
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
As opposed to the moderate and left that agree on more moral issues than the moderate and right. Most people want legalized abortion, most people support a marriage-like status for gay couples, most people do not want the religious right telling them what is right and wrong.
-Drachasor |
The recent election proves everything you just said wrong. Not 1 state turned down the opportunity to ban Homosexual Wedding.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by imacowmoo 3-:-o
The recent election proves everything you just said wrong. Not 1 state turned down the opportunity to ban Homosexual Wedding. |
No, because people didn't understand Kerry's positions on the issues.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Then there is no justification to kill the child in the womb.
Secondly, why do you support partial birth abortions, if you believe that having a brain makes you a person? |
In cases where the choice must be made between the mother's life and the child's, I support partial birth abortions.
Your other comment is a red-herring, since there is no good reason to consider the first trimester embryo as fully human.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
You don't understand the left. They are devoted to people being able to do what they want so long as it doesn't harm another person. |
What is harmful?
Is it not wrong to kill another person for convenience sake? |
First trimester embryos=not human, pay attention to my stances.
Is that the only thing you have? It is more than just about abortion.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
And whose fault is that?
Kerry did a bad job at selling himself. |
I don't think he did a horrible job, just Bush did a really good job misrepresenting Kerry.
I for one think that Democracy needs people to be voting in a decently informed manner, such as knowing where the Candidates stand on the issues. As such great misunderstandings are not a trivial matter.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
If I understood correctly, Kerry was in favor of states deciding the gay marriage issue themselves. He would be neutral on how they decided and would not be against states banning gay marriage. |
You are correct on that. He didn't want the federal government stepping in. Probably because he realized, rightly, that people weren't ready for gay marrriage but it will inevitably happen (already most people support gay marriage in all but the name).
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
First trimester embryos=not human, pay attention to my stances.
Is that the only thing you have? It is more than just about abortion.
-Drachasor |
Drach, an embryo is not human? What is it then?
The real answer is that there are a balance of rights between the unborn baby and the mother. The balance shifts from being totally in the favor of the mother during the first trimester to being totally in favor of the unborn during the third. This is Roe v. Wade. |
I more or less agree with that, because in the first trimester the baby is essentially brain dead. It isn't fully human, it doesn't and shouldn't have the rights of a citizen. The brain only begins to work during the 2nd trimester, and by the third it is basically a baby.
-Drachasor
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:19
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Drachasor:
I am paying very much attention to your position.
It would help to answer the question posed.
quote:
Your other comment is a red-herring, since there is no good reason to consider the first trimester embryo as fully human.
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Not a comment, but a question.
You agree with Kerry to support partial birth abortion.
Yet, you also said, that having a brain makes you a person.
The unborn child in a partial birth abortion has a brain, so how do you reconcile these two positions?
Either you can drop your support for Kerry, and for partial birth abortions, or you need to change your definition of personhood.
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 05-11-2004 at 05:25
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Drachasor
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When I say "isn't fully human" I of course mean it in the sense that a corpse or brain dead person is not fully human either. Genetically they are human, of course, but they don't have the same rights because what really justifies those rights is the capacity for thought.*
-Drachasor
*This is a line, a quality you have or don't have, not some spectrum upon which there are more rights as you are smarter.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The unborn child in a partial birth abortion has a brain, so how do you reconcile these two positions?
Either you can drop your support for Kerry, and for partial birth abortions, or you need to change your definition of personhood. |
As I said, only in life-threatening situations where the life of the mother is at significant risk. These situations do happen, and doctors must choose between one life and another.
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So do infants have this capacity for thought?
If so, then why does the 9 month old unborn child not have this capacity? |
See above: mother's life threatened.
I may have* been confusing by talking about Kerry's stances on parental consent and partial birth at the same time.
-Drachasor
*may have=probably was
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05-11-2004 04:08
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