04-11-2004 01:14									#31
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America hates gays MrFun. Leave now. Come to Canada where you will be treated like a human being.

	04-11-2004 01:14									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I hope Al Qaeda nukes a red state.

DEAL WITH IT SAVA!!

	04-11-2004 01:16									#33
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I do think that the rampant homophobia played a large role in this election, causing a minor shift from dems to repugs.

Hey! We've found the dems scapegoat for 2004! Those homos should've waited until after the election to ask for their full citizenship status!

	04-11-2004 01:17									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon America hates gays MrFun. Leave now. Come to Canada where you will be treated like a human being.

Actually, I am more curious now, as to what the entire process involves in becoming a citizen of Canada.


I just want to know out of curiousity though how easy or difficult it is to become a Canadian citizen. I have not decided to move to Canada, and I don't know if I will someday.

	04-11-2004 01:18									#35
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I can't understand it; how could Kerry lose?

Commiserations to the large number of Americans that voted against Bush. At least we only have to suffer from the stupidity of his foreign policies, you've got to deal with his domestic agenda too.

As for those who voted for Bush, well... may you live in interesting times. One thing I can't deny about Bush is that he's certainly made the world a more dynamic place since he burst upon the scene. I take some counsel in the fact that there was a dramatic change for the better in Reagan's outlook vis-a-vis the USSR in his second term: hopefully Bush will re-examine his 'War on Terror' and have a similar epiphany.

But I doubt it.

Any NOFX fans? Just in case Kerry lost I had 'The Decline' ready to go. Released in 1999, it struck one hell of a chord with me today. Maybe it's more relevant today than ever. Selected parts of the song.

quote: Blame it on Human nature, mans destiny (mans destiny) Blame it on the greediocracy (greediocracy) Fear of God The fear of change The fear of truth Add the Bill of Rights, subtract the wrongs There's no answers Memorize and sing star spangled songs When the questions Aren't ever asked Is anybody learning from the past? We're living in united stagnation ... Place a wager on your greed A wager on your pride Why try to beat them when, a million others tried? ... And so we go, on with our lives We know the truth, but prefer lies Lies are simple, simple is bliss Why go against tradition when we can Admit defeat, live in decline Be the victim of our own design The status quo, built on suspect Why would anyone stick out their neck?

	04-11-2004 01:18									#36
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quote: I do think that the rampant homophobia played a large role in this election, causing a minor shift from dems to repugs.

I don't.

	04-11-2004 01:21									#37
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Japher -- some Republicans pandered to homophobia and hatred to gain votes in the same way that many Democrats in the 1860s and 1870s pandered to racism and hatred to gain votes.

	04-11-2004 01:21									#38
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quote: I don't.

Then you obviously didn't look at the poll of voter issues.

	04-11-2004 01:21									#39
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quote: Originally posted by our_man I can't understand it; how could Kerry lose? Commiserations to the large number of Americans that voted against Bush. At least we only have to suffer from the stupidity of his foreign policies, you've got to deal with his domestic agenda too.

People who voted for him largely didn't do considering most of his foreign or domestic policy.

They rated "values" and "terrorism" as their biggest issues, not the economy, foreign relations, Iraq, etc.

-Drachasor

	04-11-2004 01:25									#40
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quote: Then you obviously didn't look at the poll of voter issues.

Kerry never stuck his neck out for gays, he shrugged the issue off as a matter of fact. Thus, gays were a nonissue... period.

	04-11-2004 01:26									#41
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quote: Yep, blue as the sky.

Clear as mud. Kerry has a very slight advantage.

	04-11-2004 01:28									#42
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quote: I don't.

This is both true and false. Gay marriage was only one of about 4 or 5 social issues that painted the picture in the red states of the Democractic leadership (as exemplified by Kerry) out of step with their values. Gay marriage. Guns. Abortion. Fetal stem cell research.

On the other hand, I don't know how many votes gay marriage specifically lost for the Dems. In Ohio, it might have had a slightly more than modest impact, but probably not other states.

Overall, I think Will & Grace did more harm to the democrats than the specific issue of gay marriage.

	04-11-2004 01:29									#43
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All issues on which intelligent people have been in consensus for some time now.

@ ignorant crypto-nazi bigots.

	04-11-2004 01:29									#44
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quote: As an agnostic deep in the bible-belting south, I've gotta disagree. The perspective given by holding religious beliefs oneself doesnt make one any more or less competent to judge issues associated with another faith.

I disagree. Right away there are things we can talk about that a materialist will deny.

Plus, the point I was making had to do with the viewpoint. Muslims see things over a much greater period than the moderns, for them, things that happened 100 years ago are like yesterday. You can find that same viewpoint among many Christians.

	04-11-2004 01:33									#45
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quote: All issues on which intelligent people have been in consensus for some time now.

I don't consider you unintelligent, Agathon.

	04-11-2004 01:34									#46
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After this result, I'm more convinced that America is less individualistic than Europe. Lousy Americoms.

	04-11-2004 01:36									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I disagree. Right away there are things we can talk about that a materialist will deny.

He said competent to judge, not opinionated.

Unless you're saying that vis-a-vis Christians and athiests/agnostics, one is more competent?

	04-11-2004 01:42									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I hope Al Qaeda nukes a red state.

Wyoming would be nice, or maybe Texas.

	04-11-2004 01:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman After this result, I'm more convinced that America is less individualistic than Europe. Lousy Americoms.

Bush is a freaking socialist on steroids.

	04-11-2004 01:54									#50
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So which Southern State should OBL nuke?

I reckon Arkansas, because it's spelled stupidly. The downside is that no one really lives there, so I doubt anyone would notice.

	04-11-2004 01:55									#51
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Wal-Mart lives in Arkansas.

	04-11-2004 01:57									#52
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Well, I can't say I care for Bush's speech today. For one, he claimed he had a "mandate" from the election, but he is on the bottom end of second-term presidents in terms of the percentage of the vote he got. He then went on to talk about how he wants more tax cuts and more spending, and how Americans think and what they want.

Near the end he made a lot of nice talk about bringing people together, but given everything he said in the speech it doesn't really seem like he is going to actively pursue bringing people together.

-Drachasor

	04-11-2004 01:58									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon So which Southern State should OBL nuke? I reckon Arkansas, because it's spelled stupidly. The downside is that no one really lives there, so I doubt anyone would notice.

Be serious, they are just going to attack the economic centers of America...

Yeah, that's all the places that voted against Bush.

-Drachasor

	04-11-2004 01:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon So which Southern State should OBL nuke? I reckon Arkansas, because it's spelled stupidly. The downside is that no one really lives there, so I doubt anyone would notice.

Actually Nevada or Idaho would be better. More lunatics I think.

	04-11-2004 02:00									#55
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Nevada's on the border. Why nuke a state which could go blue next time?

	04-11-2004 02:04									#56
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Indiana's a solid red state. And the drift will teach those Ohioans a lesson!

Just let me leave Indy 1st...

	04-11-2004 02:05									#57
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Poor Tony Blair. Another four years of being a chimp's puppy-dog when he should be one of the greatest PM's in British history

	04-11-2004 02:08									#58
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Nevada's on the border. Why nuke a state which could go blue next time?

Well, California would be safe with the Sierras blocking, but I forgot Diss lives there. Well, maybe they could nuke Reno. There's lots of right winger weirdos there. Or they could just nuke Idaho. I don't think any OTer's live there, unless Berzerker and DF liver there.

	04-11-2004 02:10									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Well, California would be safe with the Sierras blocking, but I forgot Diss lives there. Well, maybe they could nuke Reno. There's lots of right winger weirdos there. Or they could just nuke Idaho. I don't think any OTer's live there, unless Berzerker and DF liver there.

Gee, thanks.

	04-11-2004 02:10									#60
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So, what's happening at the Democratic Underground?


My favoritest wacky forum in the whole Internet is only letting registrants in! It's been like this since Kerry conceeded.

I'm pretty sure that there are Poly members who are also DUers - Sava, for instance. What's going on? Crying? Futile rage? What?