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BlackCat
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I'm reliefed that it seems that he didn't commit suicide because of a lost election - that would have been insane.
On the other hand - he seems to have done it because of the second worst reason - a woman. (no discrimination - women doing it because of a man has just a similar bad case - and to be PC - the same for homsexuals).
It gets even more weird when he claims that he's doing it because of the turmoil that his lovedeclaration to Karen will cause her. Guess that there also will be some turmoil for her when he in his suicide letter has told about her !
Drachasor : I feel lots of compassion with the people he left behind with his action, but don't expect me to have any compassion for him - yes, if his medical condition was that in a short time he was guaranteed to live in a hell of pain, then yes, he would have my sympathy.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Wow.
That is the most opportunistic piece of faux-compassionate rhetorical crap I have read here in a long time, Drachasor. |
Just because you lack compassion does not mean others do not. You can take your cold-hearted, uncaring nature and shove it.
When you lack compassion for the pain and difficulties of others, when you merely insult and deride someone that just took their own life, then you are dehumanizing yourself far more than your words do them.
It is this kind of "Republican" -- and I use the term loosely here -- attitude that I cannot stand. It is an attitude that will admit no change into how a community reacts to those who need help. It is an attitude that derides the suffering because some do not want to life a finger to help. It is an attitude that tries to claim we are a mere collection of individuals and that words such as "community," "society," and "nation" imply no level of responsibility to each other.
There are many that disagree with you, but because you cannot accept that fact that some of us acknowledge that we as a society need to do more to ensure this sort of thing does not happen, you must deride us, you must ridicule us, you must denounce us. For the moment you stop doing that, the moment you open your eyes to the suffering of another in this instance, at that moment you realize how cruel and inhuman you have been, and your pyschological defense mechanisms try with all their might to keep you away from that.
In some ways I feel sorry for you and people like you more than I do the man we are talking about,
-Drachasor
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BlackCat
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Drachasor : I will admit that your point is valid if we assume that the person in question has a severe need of physiatric treatment, and you may be rigth - if anyone commits suicide based on a lost election, then the person are in dire need of such treatment, and then, yes, it's reasonable to feel pity with the person in question if the act is based upon mental disease.
My guess although is that posters has assumed that he was quite normal but couldn't cope with the defeat of his favorite.
Guess that i will be told if i'm wrong.
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Tuberski
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ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Ted Striker: 
Sava:
People with little or no compassion: 
I am quite frankly shocked at the lack of compassion many of the posters on this thread have shown. Someone kills themself and it seems like most of you can't even have an ounce of sympathy, instead decrying the person and insulting him. That's grotesque.
Wether or not he killed himself for purely political reasons is a different issue, though it certainly seems like the election might have been the last straw. This issue, no matter how it turns out or has turned out, is no reason to be so cruel; so lacking in basic decency. That kind of attitude and behavior only serve to push and exclude people, to drive them to these kinds of acts of desperation.
Some of you need to take a long, hard look at yourselves.
-Drachasor |
A long, hard look?
Okay, I feel sorry for his family friends and loved ones. I feel sorry for the police, witnesses, morticians, EMT, Doctors, and anybody else that had to view his body. I feel sorry for the person that had to clean up the mess left.
I feel sorry that he didn't get help for his problem and that blowing his brains out seemed to be the best course of action.
I do not feel sorry for this selfish man, who took his own life because, apparently, a girl rejected him.
Edit: I take part of that last back, I feel sorry that this man was being used for political reasons.
 ACK!
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Drachasor
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Well, I suppose it should come as no surprise many of you are so short sighted that you cannot have compassion for all the people involved in this. I never said that you cannot have compassion and sympathy for the trouble his family is going through, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have sympathy for the trouble he went through. That doesn't mean you can't wonder how we can improve society to lessen incidents like this.
Instead many of you take the easier route and insult the guy, and pretend as though there was nothing wrong with him and that he was just "stupid".
I suppose you are similarly ignorant about depression and other mental illnesses then? Or are you fellows just fools about suicide?
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
Drachasor : I will admit that your point is valid if we assume that the person in question has a severe need of physiatric treatment, and you may be rigth - if anyone commits suicide based on a lost election, then the person are in dire need of such treatment, and then, yes, it's reasonable to feel pity with the person in question if the act is based upon mental disease.
My guess although is that posters has assumed that he was quite normal but couldn't cope with the defeat of his favorite.
Guess that i will be told if i'm wrong. |
Such a profound lack of coping ability and overreaction to events is quite indicative of some sort of mental health issue. To pretend it is otherwise is to either be ignorant of psychology or blind to reality.
-Drachasor
PS. You seem like the former, though moving away from that position.
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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Just because you lack compassion does not mean others do not. You can take your cold-hearted, uncaring nature and shove it.
When you lack compassion for the pain and difficulties of others, when you merely insult and deride someone that just took their own life, then you are dehumanizing yourself far more than your words do them.
It is this kind of "Republican" -- and I use the term loosely here -- attitude that I cannot stand. It is an attitude that will admit no change into how a community reacts to those who need help. It is an attitude that derides the suffering because some do not want to life a finger to help. It is an attitude that tries to claim we are a mere collection of individuals and that words such as "community," "society," and "nation" imply no level of responsibility to each other.
There are many that disagree with you, but because you cannot accept that fact that some of us acknowledge that we as a society need to do more to ensure this sort of thing does not happen, you must deride us, you must ridicule us, you must denounce us. For the moment you stop doing that, the moment you open your eyes to the suffering of another in this instance, at that moment you realize how cruel and inhuman you have been, and your pyschological defense mechanisms try with all their might to keep you away from that.
In some ways I feel sorry for you and people like you more than I do the man we are talking about,
-Drachasor |
You disparage the opions of others in the attempt to aggrandize your own feelings of "compassion", then you yourself try to slip politics back into it. Have you ever tried to be genuine?
Even in your response, above, you can't get away from inserting politics, or being condescending towards those who disagree with you. We have a vibrant debating community here, and even when we disagree with others, we (generally) have respect for them, and I feel they (generally) have respect for us, too. From you, on the other hand, I sense nothing but disdain for people who disagree with you, arrogance, and a penchant to lecture.
You wonder why people around here have such a negative reaction to you?
It's the condescension, stupid.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
You wonder why people around here have such a negative reaction to you?
It's the condescension, stupid. |
No, what I am expressing is moral outrage.
Generally I am pretty even-tempered and reasonable.
I, however, can have a low tolerance towards mean-spirited or cruel behavior, which many have demonstrated in this thread. Those "opinions" I was disparaging were of the order "he is stupid" and "he's selfish" regarding someone that killed themselves. Most people would find these quite out of line for obvious reasons. They ignore the realities of the situation, they are cruel, and they are innacurate (killing oneself can hardly be considered "selfish" behavior nor is it altruistic).
And I never "wonder why people around here have such a negative reaction" towards me because I don't think most do. You and some others might be an exception, but I don't think you are the rule.
-Drachasor
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Just because you lack compassion does not mean others do not. You can take your cold-hearted, uncaring nature and shove it.
When you lack compassion for the pain and difficulties of others, when you merely insult and deride someone that just took their own life, then you are dehumanizing yourself far more than your words do them.
It is this kind of "Republican" -- and I use the term loosely here -- attitude that I cannot stand. It is an attitude that will admit no change into how a community reacts to those who need help. It is an attitude that derides the suffering because some do not want to life a finger to help. It is an attitude that tries to claim we are a mere collection of individuals and that words such as "community," "society," and "nation" imply no level of responsibility to each other.
There are many that disagree with you, but because you cannot accept that fact that some of us acknowledge that we as a society need to do more to ensure this sort of thing does not happen, you must deride us, you must ridicule us, you must denounce us. For the moment you stop doing that, the moment you open your eyes to the suffering of another in this instance, at that moment you realize how cruel and inhuman you have been, and your pyschological defense mechanisms try with all their might to keep you away from that.
In some ways I feel sorry for you and people like you more than I do the man we are talking about,
-Drachasor |
While I doubt that I can improve on what The Mad Monk just said, I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly. If you really think you are compassionate you should be advised that it is just another symptom of your own wicked case of narcissism.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
I am a bit calloused on the subject, having some legal experience in mental health committment proceedings. One of my former partners was, for over 20 years, the a judge specializing in, and the leading authority and leading author in Texas, on involuntary mental health commitment proceedings (which are based upon serious risk of harm to self or others, mostly self in practice). Spite towards persons that cared for them, and desrie to them 'to share the pain' was a rather common factor. My role of trying to lock them up to keep them alive needed cold blooded detatchment rather than empathy. |
When it gets to the point of legal proceedings, you're looking at the most acute, chronic of the cases. Those don't make up the bulk of what I've seen, where someone has just had a run of bad luck or a chemical imbalance and just needs a helping hand to get back on their feet again.
I could see though how the cases you were dealing with could make you calloused towards the situation, since in those cases, there has already been an insane amount of work done to try and get those people back up and running. Or they people in question don't want any help, and have gone to a place where they have literally lost themselves.
Some of you will laugh at me, but I don't give a ****, I think in many cases people that get that point are literally possessed.
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Tuberski
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ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
No, what I am expressing is moral outrage.
Generally I am pretty even-tempered and reasonable.
I, however, can have a low tolerance towards mean-spirited or cruel behavior, which many have demonstrated in this thread. Those "opinions" I was disparaging were of the order "he is stupid" and "he's selfish" regarding someone that killed themselves. Most people would find these quite out of line for obvious reasons. They ignore the realities of the situation, they are cruel, and they are innacurate (killing oneself can hardly be considered "selfish" behavior nor is it altruistic).
And I never "wonder why people around here have such a negative reaction" towards me because I don't think most do. You and some others might be an exception, but I don't think you are the rule.
-Drachasor |
Explain to me how saying "suicide is stupid", is disparaging.
KILLING YOURSELF IS A STUPID THING TO DO. PERIOD.
His reasons for killing himself may not have been stupid to him, and i'm sorry he felt it was the best solution, but it was still a stupid thing to do.
Finally, I haven't insulted you once, but you have insulted me and others of my "ilk" several times.
Who doesn't show compassion and respect?
ACK!
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
Explain to me how saying "suicide is stupid", is disparaging.
KILLING YOURSELF IS A STUPID THING TO DO. PERIOD. |
While suicide is generally a bad decision (and in this person's case certainly was a bad decision) you and several others do not limit yourselves to saying it was a bad decision. Instead many focused on insulting the man in many ways. Calling him selfish, saying one should not feel sorry for him, calling him stupid, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
His reasons for killing himself may not have been stupid to him, and i'm sorry he felt it was the best solution, but it was still a stupid thing to do. |
No one here denies this, as best I know, but that doesn't mean he isn't deserving of compassion. Saying that an *action* he did was stupid is one thing. Saying that he is stupid, selfish, and a poor human being because of that one action is quite another.
quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
Finally, I haven't insulted you once, but you have insulted me and others of my "ilk" several times.
Who doesn't show compassion and respect? |
So you are saying that because I pointed out that people weren't showing compassion for the guy, that makes me lacking in compassion? Because I gave reasons why those who refused to show compassion were missing the bigger picture *and* the human element, that means I am lacking in compassion?
Well, sir, I reject this claim of yours and the similar claims others have made. While I understand how everyone has the right to their own opinion, that doesn't mean that certain opinions are not wrong or short-sighted. As a member of the human race it is my duty to stand up for what is right and proper in the world, and to fight prejudice and short-sightedness.
And it is prejudiced and short-sighted to not see that there is a *person* there who had real, human problems. It is short-sighted to write off an entire human being because of one mistake he made when he clearly was suffering and psychologically ill. Though you have been more reasonable than some of the others here, you still have tended to degrade the person involved here, and not been able to see that he was a person who was sick.
I would also note that I have expressed my sorry for those of your that do not understand that mental illnesses are real illnesses, for those of you that cannot connect to people like this man. I honestly find it quite unfortunate, though the attitude admittedly riles me as well. So perhaps I was a bit too insulting at times, but I largely focused my text on the particular attitude towards the mentally ill and others in need as opposed actual persons. However, my apologies to everyone for those times when my words strayed into attacks on an entire person, but I do not take back anything I said about the wrongness of particular attitudes and the like.
-Drachasor
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:19
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There is a strong push within North American newspapers to do a better job at covering suicides and to avoid the garbage articles like the one at the beginning of this thread.
People do not commit suicide because of a single thing, it is typically a result of a combination of many factors and almost always a result of mental illness.
It is simply wrong and irresponsible for reporters to say a person committed suicide because event A occurred and it is extremely unethical to make assumptions about why a person committed suicide.
Journalists are being taught to remind people that help is out there and that there are alternatives to suicide. Usually this involves a comment from a health official.
Drachasor, Dava and Ted Striker are right in saying that we need to have some compassion and to at least understand that mentally ill people do not make sane decisions.
He wasn't selfish, he wasn't stupid, he wasn't brave. He was simply so ill that he thought suicide was an option and he wasn't able to find real solutions.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:19
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Attacking people who you think were trying to make political hay out of this suicide is one thing, but attacking the man who died is quite another thing.
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10-11-2004 01:24
)
Feel sorry for his family, though.
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