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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-PtW Democracy Game > C3PtWDG Gathering Storm > Turn 243: 1265 AD
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vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 18-11-2004 04:27
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I would have to reinstall to get the pwt editor as C3C deletes it. Our game clearly has transports as 4 def, while even the editor in C3C has them as 2.

I alwyas thought they were 4 as well. I remember I sometimes used them to atack 1 hp ships and when I attacked them, I sometime lost.

This does not work so well now in C3C. No big deal.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
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Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 18-11-2004 19:43
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Increase the size of your Attachments

(Ten posts short of the highest ever turn-thread count)

Erm, nine

DeepO is offline DeepO

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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 18-11-2004 19:48
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Was there a previous turn thread which had more posts? That has to be in the Voxian war, then.

I wonder what next thread is going to look like. If we manage to get a rolling invasion going, we will need more time on our turn. A lot of decisions to be made, let's hope we get a bit more lucky this time in naval battles and maneuvres (French spelling ).

DeepO

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:19
  Old Post 18-11-2004 21:25
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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
  Old Post 21-11-2004 07:32
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For the record...

It is really not a very good idea to be posting about post count in these private forums. The owners of the site take a very dim view of such things, and their minions have been known to get quite bitey about it when warrens of spam are discovered (that is how posts about post count would be viewed).

Some of you might not be aware of how the admins and mods (the real ones, not me) view these things, so I thought I should offer my freindly advice.

Now, by all means continue the discussion of how to best take down Lego. We are in a tight spot. If we can overcome this, those will be tales to tell the grandkids (assuming they play civ5 or 8 or...).

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 22-11-2004 06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
- DD from S fleet moves 33211 and attacks 4/5 DD.
- defensive bombardment failed.
- 4/5 DD sinks, our DD 2/4 (nice!)

- DD moves 12261 and attacks 4/5 DD Pollux.
- Defensive bombardment misses
- DD sunk, Pollux at 1/5.


I made a mistake with the battle report... again. This 24h period of overseeing what I do is not working perfectly

We hit 2 4/5 DDs, but only mention 1 in the battle report. I'm going to correct this now. The screenshot provided was up to date, which was created from these movement orders, instead of the battle report.

My apologies.
DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 22-11-2004 08:06
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It happens, you do the best you can.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 25-11-2004 03:48
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Suffering from ads?

GoW report for 1265 in log

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 26-11-2004 04:12
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Did RP get a battle report for 1265? Are they going to be OK for their turn?

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 26-11-2004 07:06
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes they did get a report... a couple of days later than GoW, but I didn't forget this time

If they are going to be okay, I'm not sure. I hope so. I've got to say, I don't mind being ambassador for RP, but if anyone would be willing to step up and be a bit more active with these guys, please be my guest!

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 26-11-2004 14:53
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If Lego or Vox spot them they could be in trouble. I don't suppose there's anywhere we can recommend them to be, but if they do draw fire from Lego at some point it may save us a few blows somewhere. It would be great if we could get them a landing spot.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 26-11-2004 17:26
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Got spare money?

RP's approach is going to be tricky... and at some point, they will be spotted for sure. We might run into subs each turn, but Lego is going to keep a underwater scouting net. They will build subs to keep it going.

I would prefer RP to pass without getting hit... their transports are way to vulnerable. Also, there are 40 units on those ships, being the complete army of RP (well, I hope they have built a couple more units this turn). Losing those ships would be very demotivational to RP. Their stuborness to add infs and arts to their conqs, while we have said time and time again that it's no use, as it won't be enough to keep Lego from overrunning their minimal defenses speaks for itself. Togas wants to be of some use, and is willing to risk it all, just to get out of the boredom of having just 5 cities...

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 26-11-2004 22:56
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Put an end to popups!

Yes it would have been better for them to delay heading out until the way was cleared a bit ot they had some naval support.

Those untis could be very useful, if they can get into the action.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 26-11-2004 23:38
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Even if none of the units reach Legoland, the involvement of RP is going to be important. If Lego wants to keep them from landing, they need to attack them first... so they will get WW the way it was supposed to be From last turns investigations, it looks like at least a couple of their cities are at the edge of unhappiness. GoW bombed a couple of cathedrals, without one a big Lego city is going to be tricky to keep productive. Also, keep in mind they are also in mobilization, they can't build any happiness structures, and have to rely solely on the slider to correct happiness problems.

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 26-11-2004 23:43
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True

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 26-11-2004 23:52
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If this war takes long, I think that is precisely the weak spot of Lego. They mobilized... they needed to as otherwise we would overrun them. But, in their case there is a major problem with this: they are under attack, and can't rebuild. GoW destroyed a factory in Legopolis (which probably had a coal plant as well), for the rest of this war Legopolis will have half the production.

I'm only starting to realize the impact of this... if we could bomb all factories of Lego, we probably outproduce them! We don't even need to take cities (although the FP is a very juicy target, of course), we just need to damage critical buildings.

That doesn't mean we have to focus solely on bombers from now on, we still need tanks to finish the job, however in case we see a rolling invasion is only something from our dreams, and this war is going to be bloody and long, we could win because of pillaging tactics.

So if blitzing doesn't work, make them suffer instead.

BTW, is it possible to bomb a wonder? Sistine and Bach are powerful for Lego, and would be hard to miss. Without them, we could also cripple their economy.

DeepO

Krill is offline Krill
Emperor
On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 00:01
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Wonders can not be destroyed in PTW by bombing (I think), unlike in C3C where that happened due to the bug with the GW.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 00:44
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Got spare money?

What about a FP?

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 01:02
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While it is true and it was good that GoW busted some structures, I doubt that will be our salvation. This could work to start an invasion, but not after.

We either capture or raze some cities or we are going to be tossed off the land. This will happen in a few turns. If RP got a bunch of pillagers down first or second turn and was able to race out and wreck the tiles, then we could hold on until we broke thier production.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 01:07
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I expect the same applies for the FP. Whacking Factories and Cathedrals would certainly be an effective way of weakening Lego, and is a point in favour of the airports route. No point having regs if Lego have vet fighters. With naval superiority they might consider carriers to attack us if they're not preoccupied.

Downside of airports is pollution - we'd lose a statistically higher number of builds. I was wondering whether a little explorer pump could provide shields to recover a polution hit after turn 1 of a build.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 01:11
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If RP did manage to land, what are the chances of their Conqs finding something they could kill? Not hight, I expect, but an RP GA would be nice.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 02:02
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The Conq would probably just be used to pillage, no attacking, unles the city was nearly undefended.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 27-11-2004 22:32
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RP would probably have a very hard time finding something to kill, unless we (or they) can soften the target beforehand. But they only need to kill 1 unit in the whole Lego campaign, they are here for the pillaging.

vmxa, while I half agree with you, I also half disagree. True, invasions have to be swift and fast to have effect, anything stretched out is good for the defender (certainly in the case he is gaining on tech, and outproducing us). However, if Lego plays it smart, we are not going to have any rolling invasion. All they need to do is to isolate us from their road network, and we can't take 2 cities in 1 turn.

At the very least, they can identify juicy targets, and isolate us from these. All this would have been different if we would have been able to take a city last turn... which also means that we need to discuss the new situation (as we are doing).

For me, this means 2 things. True, we can't have a rolling invasion, and will have to slow down. Consolidate what we conquered, prepare for the next strike, and work gradually until we see an opening in their defense. But OTOH, this will also mean Lego won't have the easiest of time to toss us off their continent either. We won't stretch out this fast, but concentrate on defendable positions. While not taking a city in the first turn could mean we lose 30-40 units before we conquer anything, it also means that we've got a good chance we will be on Legoland 5 turns longer.

Realistically, even if things go bad, how long can we expect to last? 10 turns? In that time, we can build ~90 units (each airport distracts 2). An extra 20 tanks will be good for us, but will hardly be the game breaker, and it's far from certain we can send them to Legoland (unless we build airports, which we'll probably should). an extra 20 bombers, over those 10 turns, means 10-15 destroyed cities. We will destroy half their production, and half their economy, including their researc power. We can be tossed off their island, but if we manage to do that, we will have hampered Lego enough for this war, and have met one of our objectives. It would take over 30 turns before they get to the same level again, while we are not damaged, and only need to rebuild our troops. In that respect, pillaging with bombers is, IMHO, far superior than having an extra 20 tanks, or MI to use.

I do agree that all depends on how fast this war is going to be, and how Lego is going to respond the next few turns. But the point that we either succeed, or can only do a bit of damage before being driven off is exactly the main idea behind bombers for pillaging.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 27-11-2004 22:37
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BTW, there is another thing to consider: because we are in mobilization, we have to do the maximum possible to ensure that Lego doesn't damage us too. They have 1 carrier, which is not that bad (plus, all their bombers are on land). The moment they build more, we've got to be able to sink those carriers, or protect against their bombers. Losing factories would be disastrous for us, even more than for Lego.

DeepO

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 27-11-2004 22:54
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We are not that fart apart. I suspect that Lego will have to concentrate on GoW first as to damage to homeland.

This is because they already have lots of bombers, already have more units to land or have landed than we do. They are closer to them.

If they go hard to hit the invasion of either of us, they will likely lose a lot of their forces. This will allow one of us to start doing damage.

The beauty of airports is they can built vet fighters if we need to defend bombers. They are not real effective, but they can also recon. This lets us find those carriers. We get instant transport of tanks/MI.

I can't recall if you can send workers in PTW, you can in C3C. Anyway I just wanted to get one more perspective out there for consideration.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 27-11-2004 23:20
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What concentration is concerned, I've been thinking too on Lego's options.

Situation:
GoW has bombers, no MI, airports, and sea supeririority on their side.
We've got the best land based defense next turn, no bombers, are in trouble at sea, and have no airports. Also, we've got the biggest army.

Given this, I think Lego is going to do 2 things:
- As long as we don't have airports, our chainers are our weak link. Lego will focus on this, also because they've got plenty of ships on our side. We will lose control over the sea.
- On land, they have to prevent GoW from constructing an airport. Add this with our increased defense from MI, and GoW will be the focus.
They can't have 2 wars at the same time, but they can do a combination, where they focus their land units on GoW, while concentrating their naval units on us.

vet fighters: they would be good to have, yes. Even if a bomber kills a fighter, that bomber won't bomb that turn. Next turn, a fresh fighter could be present. On scouting, they are far from ideal, though. Lego has a range of 6 at sea, while fighters only have a range of 4. They see 2 tiles, meaning that they have to be very precisely positioned, and we need a lot of them to cover for al posibilities... plus, a fighter which scouts, can't be on air superiority next turn.

For scouting, we would be helped a lot more with a couple of subs.

Oh, and you can't send workers, all population has to come by sea. Which is why I hope our chain will survive for at least one more turn... next chainer would consist of 4 settlers + 4 MI.

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 28-11-2004 14:44
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Yes, I expect Lego will come for the chain. Should we consider placing a spy in Vox?

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 29-11-2004 06:56
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eventually, we need a spy in Vox. I'm not sure when, though... we can use all the money we've got for upgrades.

DeepO

 
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