14-11-2004 04:19									#301
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie France sent troups to help in the liberation and was the first country to recognize American souverignity from England. (Sweden was 2nd)

There went our reputation as a nice country.

	14-11-2004 04:20									#303
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Despite all history confusion here, France was an American ally from the very beginning, no fact you presented opposes that.

Allies don't fight wars against each other and enslave thier citizens. You'd make more sense claiming the UK was an American ally from the begining.

	14-11-2004 04:24									#304
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Yeah, but we have grown closer to the British since then.

	14-11-2004 04:26									#305
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah, but we have grown closer to the British since then.

British LIBERALS !!111!!!

	14-11-2004 04:28									#306
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Allies don't fight wars against each other and enslave thier citizens. You'd make more sense claiming the UK was an American ally from the begining.

Saddam was an American ally from the beginning

*Trolling mode tonight*

	14-11-2004 04:29									#307
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Nice edit DinoDoc

	14-11-2004 13:56									#308
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quote: Originally posted by Ned It was all over the media some time ago, which is why I am asking you why you are so uniformed about events in Iraq and the war on terror.

Even if what you say is true, Ned it would seem that the "resistance" you mention had no allegiance to Bin Laden rpior to the invasion of Iraq. That means that we made them our enemy rather than them having supported Bin Laden on his faithful day of aggression towards the U.S. but rather they turned to Bin Laden after what they see as aggression towards them. Who else could they have turned too? We made them our enemy!

	14-11-2004 14:04									#309
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quote: Originally posted by Ned PAX, agreed. Hindsight is a very good way of managing one's affairs. I would never have sent in ground troops in the manner Johnson did. If we were going to fight a war, we fight it to win. That required a declaration of war on NV.

There is no hindsight on my part. I would have never sent troops to Vietnam. I would have never sent troops to Iraq in the second gulf war. I think my position on war would be very clear to you by now. It is up to the people to determne through action or inaction how they want to live. For the U.S. to make that decision is in no way, shape, or form true freedom. It seems like if you are as patriotic as me you would agree.

	14-11-2004 14:27									#310
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quote: Originally posted by Pax There is no hindsight on my part. I would have never sent troops to Vietnam. I would have never sent troops to Iraq in the second gulf war. I think my position on war would be very clear to you by now. It is up to the people to determne through action or inaction how they want to live. For the U.S. to make that decision is in no way, shape, or form true freedom. It seems like if you are as patriotic as me you would agree.

What would you have done, PAX, after the armed attack on our naval forces in the Tonkin Gulf?

	14-11-2004 14:29									#311
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Even if what you say is true, Ned it would seem that the "resistance" you mention had no allegiance to Bin Laden rpior to the invasion of Iraq. That means that we made them our enemy rather than them having supported Bin Laden on his faithful day of aggression towards the U.S. but rather they turned to Bin Laden after what they see as aggression towards them. Who else could they have turned too? We made them our enemy!

The Ba'athists in Falluja were hardly our friends prior to the invasion. You cannot distinguish between Saddam and his party. They are not our enemy because of the invasion. We declared war on them.

	14-11-2004 21:25									#312
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie France sent troups to help in the liberation and was the first country to recognize American souverignity from England. (Sweden was 2nd)

I heard that Croatian city-state Dubrovnik (Ragusa) was the first to recognize USA.

	14-11-2004 22:58									#313
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I that Ragusa was the medieval name for Montenagro.

	15-11-2004 01:00									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Ned What would you have done, PAX, after the armed attack on our naval forces in the Tonkin Gulf?

At most I would have reteliated with a equal force. Or even twice the force.

	15-11-2004 01:05									#315
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The Ba'athists in Falluja were hardly our friends prior to the invasion. You cannot distinguish between Saddam and his party. They are not our enemy because of the invasion. We declared war on them.

Ned, everyone resisting the U.S. is not Ba'athist. I don't thinkyou can distinguish between Saddam, his party, and the rest of the Iraqi's when you declare war. Even our smart weapons can't specifically target Ba'athists. What percentage of dead Iraqi's from the war/occupation do you think are Ba'athists? More or less than 50 %.

	15-11-2004 03:30									#316
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Ned, everyone resisting the U.S. is not Ba'athist. I don't thinkyou can distinguish between Saddam, his party, and the rest of the Iraqi's when you declare war. Even our smart weapons can't specifically target Ba'athists. What percentage of dead Iraqi's from the war/occupation do you think are Ba'athists? More or less than 50 %.

PAX, irrelevant. Clearly the resistance is lead by the Ba'athists, Fedayeen and Republican Guard. Even if others joined them, they are insignificant compared to the trained and professional soldiers comprising the resistance. From all accounts, the resistance fighters exhibit competence which comes from training.

	15-11-2004 06:10									#317
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quote: What would you have done, PAX, after the armed attack on our naval forces in the Tonkin Gulf?

Error Alert! Error Alert! Error Alert!

It's since be revealed that there was no armed attack on our naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin. It was a fiction created by the Johnson Administration in order to get a blank check from Congress to use whatever force LBJ wanted to use.

	15-11-2004 07:09									#318
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You're wrong. There was an attack but it was much smaller then Johnson portrayed and it was likely an accident.

	15-11-2004 07:44									#319
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This is transferred over from the now-locked "Bush Left Holding an Empty Bag" thread:

quote: Y'know, I'm wondering if this wasn't the plan all along. If we had surrounded the city with no prior warning and then went in, there'd be one heck of a bloody fight. This way, Zarqawi and most of his gang evaculate. We take the city in a few days with relatively little bloodshed. And then we tout it as a great victory. This sets up Falluja and maybe the rest of the Sunni Triangle for the January elections -- which are only two months off. Later on, Zarqawi and his gang of thugs return and reassert control, but by then the elections have been held.

	15-11-2004 08:04									#320
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I hate this "liberate" rhetoric - I don't see crowds of locals cheering the coalition on in Fallujah.

	15-11-2004 08:13									#321
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quote: Originally posted by Ned PAX, irrelevant. Clearly the resistance is lead by the Ba'athists, Fedayeen and Republican Guard. Even if others joined them, they are insignificant compared to the trained and professional soldiers comprising the resistance. From all accounts, the resistance fighters exhibit competence which comes from training.

My point is that WE made these people our enemy. Not the other way around. They had nothing to do with 9/11 now we are creating enemies.

	15-11-2004 08:17									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I hate this "liberate" rhetoric - I don't see crowds of locals cheering the coalition on in Fallujah.

They would probably be shot before they got the chance to, anyways.

	15-11-2004 08:35									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Pax My point is that WE made these people our enemy. Not the other way around. They had nothing to do with 9/11 now we are creating enemies.

My point is also that we are fighting the very enemy upon whom we declared war. We didn't make these folks our enemy as a consequence of invading.

	15-11-2004 08:38									#324
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Yeah, AH. One could have expected to see throngs of Germans to greet the conquering Russian hordes in the German capital in the closing days of WWII.

Didn't happen.

Don't expect it to happen in the Sunni triangle either. This is the epicenter of the enemy.

	15-11-2004 08:39									#325
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Oh give it up Ned - are you living in some kind of Foxnews fuelled fantasy world?

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 15-11-2004 at 08:44

	15-11-2004 08:44									#326
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Alex the Horse, why don't you give it up? It's as if the only thing you read are leftist propaganda and conspiracy rags. No one ever said the heartland of the Ba'athist Party was going to be easy.

	15-11-2004 08:47									#327
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Actually my post crossed with yours - I was referring to your earlier post.

But a strangely fitting way my riposte fits with any of your post because they are all the same

I nailed you

	15-11-2004 11:48									#328
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No one ever said the heartland of the Ba'athist Party was going to be easy.

Er...actually I think it was Secretary Rumsfield...something about the Americans being met with flowers.

	15-11-2004 12:08									#329
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Fallujah has been successfully cleared

The Marines never fail

McCain calling a painful mistake that has now been made up for.

The question now is, will it STAY in Coalition hands when the Marines move out and go chase the next bad guys?

	15-11-2004 12:14									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Yeah, AH. One could have expected to see throngs of Germans to greet the conquering Russian hordes in the German capital in the closing days of WWII. Didn't happen. Don't expect it to happen in the Sunni triangle either. This is the epicenter of the enemy.

Talk about a loser Godwin