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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Soviet army did a smashing job in Afghanistan. US in Afhganistan: >1200 casualties after 2 years. Soviets in just Afghanistan: how many tens of thousands? Or better yet, how many civilian collateral? |
The Soviet army was handily winning in Afghanistan until the U.S. gave the rebels stinger missiles and increased support in other areas.
There is no major power helping out the rebels in Afghanistan against the U.S., so the comparison you make isn't valid.
Oh, and Russia is a Democracy now, did you miss the memo?
-Drachasor
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Drachasor
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I'll just point out again that there is going to be no Nuclear Exchange like everyone is talking about. There will simply never be enough motivation to exceed the massive cost.
-Drachasor
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Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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Soviets slaughtered 100 millions |
I am glad you are finally coming to terms with this, acceptance is the first step towards healing. I am here for you brother.
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I see you were somewhere in the middle of Indian ocean all that time. It is a well known fact confirmed by Pentagon. |
I see you noted I could infact post here from the Indian Ocean, and thus had access to the wonderful inventions called satillites that can give remote warships internet. Maybe one day the Russian military will catch up to us and get this ability. But anyhow, since you know I was in that area of operation, I also got to read all the message traffic from the region which had all the results of the excersises there.
You brought up the BS numbers, and as per your usual failed to supply evidence when asked. Good to pwn you again Serb.
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I see they taught you how to drop fuel bomb on cities. Great job. You Americans are so skillful and brave
Come and get us if you are so strong. Your problem is that you lack balls to face real opponent and prefer to kill defenseless folks. |
Alright, I will try and teach you some reading comprehension, because like I said I worry about you buddy 
I said "We will take your lead and just fuel air bomb your cities." The first part obviously means that you did this before us since we learned FROM you. Of course we never have bombed cities with fuel air bombs, Russia is alone in the world with this merit badge. Chechnya comes to mind, but like the 100 million dearly departed Russians, I guess the KGB erased this from history too.
Note: We learned how to bomb "your cities" from you. So we know exactly what the effects will be on Russians. Not a very nice thing to do to your own citizens.
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After ten+ years Soviet Army lost in Afganistan less than 14 500 KIA |
BS but we will go with it. 14500 divided by 10 years equals 1450 a year. We have lost less than 1,100 in a year and a half or 733 a year. By the numbers that makes us a least twice as good as you.
However, we are not fighting in Afghanistan, we are fighting there AND in Iraq. So we have secured twice the territory, in 1/10th the time with 1/14th the losses. Not to mention we didn't run away. We can discuss the future, which you will be infinity pessimistic about an I realistically optomistic about, but as for now the Soviet record is officially pwned.
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enemy supplied and trained by another superpower |
True, you did supply them with 99% of their material. We did supply 1% of the Afhgan war material (and I will say much better than your defective crap) so to be accurate they were supplied by two superpowers. But that leads to the obvious qustion of HOW did the Afhgans kick the prestegious Soviet legions of doom with a few stingers?
Answer, because that is all it takes to push you sissies over.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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David, maintenance of intercontinental ballistic missile and especially the one with nuclear device (or devices) inside cannot be easy and cheap by definition.
etc. |
Fair enough - didn't know that. I thought that Soviet missiles were designed to be far more "rough 'n ready" than US missiles.
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You can't even deal with buch of ragheads in Iraq, and still whine you can easily beat us... |
For an equally useless comparison, you can't even hold down Checnya.
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Indian Airforce equipped with our old planes absolutely f*cked your pathetic USAF during their last joint manoeuvres. |
Often times, the US military doesn't perform at it's highest level during joint operations, in order to a)provide valid training for the other nation, and b)safeguard capabilities.
It's pretty ridiculous to assume that an airforce like the Indian Air Force could actually wreck the USAF in actual combat.
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Add terrible Russian winter which saved our butts in WW2 |
Well, that's true, along with Lend Lease, but I didn't want to threadjack 
Patroklos,
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Maybe one day the Russian military will catch up to us and get this ability. |
Yeah, but by that time we'll have the War Net 
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Oh, and Russia is a Democracy now, did you miss the memo? |
Dubious statement at best, but most definetly false for the discussion of Afghanistan, did you miss the history book? |
That was in response to your "Americans don't mind killing dirty commies" comment, which seemed to be about America right now and Russian right now.
quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
EXCELLENT POINT. So since the Afghans didn't get significant support until 6-7 years into the conflict (actually never, but why split hairs) the super power connection has absolutly no effect on this debate until 5-6 years fron now. So if we are still fighting a full scale insurgency at that time the comparison does indeed cease. Not looking good for the Soviets at all. |
It was slow going for the Soviet Army, but they were destroying the resistance bases with their helicopters until we loaned out Stinger Missiles. The USSR was going to win if we didn't do that, and we had been supporting efforts before then too. It is just our previous efforts weren't sufficient.
-Drachasor
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
I am glad you are finally coming to terms with this, acceptance is the first step towards healing. I am here for you brother. |
I'm not your brother. And if you can't think logically it's your problem not mine.
quote:
I see you noted I could infact post here from the Indian Ocean, and thus had access to the wonderful inventions called satillites that can give remote warships internet. Maybe one day the Russian military will catch up to us and get this ability. But anyhow, since you know I was in that area of operation, I also got to read all the message traffic from the region which had all the results of the excersises there. |
I realize it could be shock for you, but it were Russians who launched the first satellite. Catch up my ass.
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You brought up the BS numbers, and as per your usual failed to supply evidence when asked. Good to pwn you again Serb. |
I didn't bring ANY numbers. I've said that AMERICAN generals and AMERICAN magazine confirmed that during last joint exerciseses USAF was f*cked by Indians.
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Alright, I will try and teach you some reading comprehension, because like I said I worry about you buddy |
I'm not your buddy.
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I said "We will take your lead and just fuel air bomb your cities." The first part obviously means that you did this before us since we learned FROM you. Of course we never have bombed cities with fuel air bombs, Russia is alone in the world with this merit badge. Chechnya comes to mind, but like the 100 million dearly departed Russians, I guess the KGB erased this from history too.
Note: We learned how to bomb "your cities" from you. So we know exactly what the effects will be on Russians. Not a very nice thing to do to your own citizens. |
Blah...blah...blah...
Napalm, agent orange, bio&chem weapons in Korea, A-bombs, firestorms etc, etc. You are unchallenged leader in that field.
You used all kinds of banned weaponry in Vietnam, and Afghanistan. Now you bomb Iraqi cities, slaughter them with you artillery to bring them freedom. When Russians stormed Grozny, civilians had several weeks to escape the city. And even after that fuel bombs were not used there, because such bombs designed for deep hideouts, not for urban warfare. Nobody never provide me a link to this bullsh!t story.
You gave how much time for Iraqi civilians to escape Falujah? Three days? And still made ultimatum that males 15-55 years old cannot leave the city. Basically you are just a bunch of butchers who invade sovereign countries and violate international laws.
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BS |
It's official statistic. We have a full list of first names and last names of soldiers and officers KIA in Afghanistan. It is complete and accurate list.
quote:
but we will go with it. 14500 divided by 10 years equals 1450 a year. We have lost less than 1,100 in a year and a half or 733 a year. By the numbers that makes us a least twice as good as you.
However, we are not fighting in Afghanistan, we are fighting there AND in Iraq. So we have secured twice the territory, in 1/10th the time with 1/14th the losses. |
What the hell are you talking about? You have secured Afghanistan? What the hell you control there except your military bases? You just protect yourselves there and control nothing except Kabul.
Your performance in Iraq is great as well. Every major city there is a constant war zone. Your enemy take control of entire cities for months, blow up things inside the green zone of Baghdad and still you claim that you secured Iraq?
quote:
Not to mention we didn't run away.
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1) You already did so in Afghanistan. How many soldiers do you have there? Several thousands?
2) We didn't run away. And certanly we didn't withdraw after only two years.
3) When we withdrawn we left freindly socialist government there.
quote:
We can discuss the future, which you will be infinity pessimistic about an I realistically optomistic about, but as for now the Soviet record is officially pwned.
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Look, once again
a) You do not control Afghanistan like Soviets controled it.
b) You didn't stay in Afghanistan for ten years and since we don't have exact statistic about Soviet casualties during first two years of Afghan war for comparison with your statistic, we can't compare it. So please shut up about pwned Soviet record.
c) During last 20 years technology changed, now you have GPS, fuel bombs, microwave emmiters, laser sabres and many other fancy things that make slaughter more effective and less dangerous for your soldiers.
d) Compare Soviet record in Afganistan with American record in Vietnam (it's 14,5K KIA vs 60K+ KIA) and you'll see who can handle things better.
quote:
True, you did supply them with 99% of their material. We did supply 1% of the Afhgan war material (and I will say much better than your defective crap) so to be accurate they were supplied by two superpowers.
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1) USA spent 3 billion USD to supply Majahedes of Afghanistan. I highly doubt that USSR spent 300 billion USD to supply Afghani government.
2) The Northern Alliance (which did all dirty ground work for you when you invaded Afghanistan after 911) was part of the Majaheden forces and it was an enemy for USSR. But later it became the only opposing force to Taliban (your creation) and Russian Federation secretly supplied this force for two years prior your invasion, despite we were enemies not so long ago.
quote:
But that leads to the obvious qustion of HOW did the Afhgans kick the prestegious Soviet legions of doom with a few stingers? |
They didn't.
Soviets left because of Gorbachev's decision, his friking policy of "frendship" with US. However when they left Afghanistan they left puppet government there which could surrvive longer than a single year had CIA didn't create Taliban and had Gorbachev sold ammo and fuel for this government as he promised.
quote:
Answer, because that is all it takes to push you sissies over. |
 yourself mister Popeye
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
For an equally useless comparison, you can't even hold down Checnya. |
Why we can't? Last time I checked it was on map of Russia.
They switched to terrorist tactics years ago, since their military capabilities were destroyed. They can't match up with our army and preffer to fight vs. our children. They can't take control of even a small village, not to mention a big city (like Falujah or Mosul for example). Last time they destroyed Russian chopter was years ago. So what makes you think that they can ever win? As military force they are nothing. Killing of children is another case.
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Often times, the US military doesn't perform at it's highest level during joint operations, in order to a)provide valid training for the other nation, and b)safeguard capabilities. |
Perhaps.
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It's pretty ridiculous to assume that an airforce like the Indian Air Force could actually wreck the USAF in actual combat. |
Your generals said so, not me.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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quote:
They switched to terrorist tactics years ago, since their military capabilities were destroyed. They can't match up with our army and preffer to fight vs. our children. |
Hmmm, who else does that sound like? The Iraqis, perhaps?
And we both know that Iraqi insurgents can't remain in any place they occupy if the US military actually comes after them in force.
quote:
Your generals said so, not me. |
The only way that would or could be the case would be because of the US dumbing down it's capabilities for the reasons I stated above (and you somewhat agreed that was quite possible).
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Try hitting a movving target at 150 meters with an AK-47. It's not much of a markman's rifle and it pisses through ammo very fast plus it is much to heavy.
It is dead reliable though and the heavy calibre make it good for poorly trained soldiers. Do you ever wonder why American soldiers with M-16 pick off Iraqi insurgents with AK-47s while the reverse almost never happens? |
1) AK-47 is over than 50 years old design, you compare it with M16A4 your soldiers use now in Iraq. Is it fair? I heard in Vietman American soldiers always prefered AK-47 over its counterpart first modification of M-16 (because it jammed like hell). Why not compare AK-47 which was adopted by Soviet army in 1949 with M16A1 adopted by US army in 1967?
2) Yes AK-47 is less accurate at longer distances in comparison with M-16, but tell me, how often do you encounter 500 meters long open spaces in the middle of Baghdad to exploit this advantage? You've said it pisses through ammo very fast. Sure, but does capability to shot really long burst a disadvantage at close and medium distances? AK-47 also has greater penetrating power afaik.
3) Since AK-47 it's a very old design, now Russians use AKM, AK-74, AK-102, AK-104, AK-105 and other modern modifications that perform way better at longer distances than AK-47. We also have AN-94 (Nikonov assault rifle) which is absolutely uniqe AR. You've said it's pretty problematic to hit a moving target at 150 meters with an AK-47, but can you, or any other no matter how well trained shooter, place first two bullets of burst into single hole from 100 meters with M-16 or any other western assult rifle? No. With AN-94 it wouldn't be a problem. No other AR has such accurate burst mode.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
I will take a Thompson over an AK any day. |
Oh sure, I bet Thompson in your hands will double the firepower of your destroyer.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Okay, I will try to to this Serb's way so he will understand.
SERBESETHE US IS THE BST MILITARY IN THE WORLD
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WTF is "BST"? New shortening for a 'bullsh!t'?
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AND WE WILL SLAUGHTER YOU |
You lack balls for that. Come and get us.
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YOU AND WE MAKE THE BEST STUFF |
You mean Miller and Budweiser? Sure you make better that kind of "stuff", go take a candy.
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AND OBLICATORY REFERANCE TO NON RELATED COMPARISON |
WTF?
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AND WE BEAT THE NAZIS |
In your dreams. Red Army destroyed 4/5 of Nazi war machine.
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AND YOU ARE SO STUPID /SERBESE |
Then it wouldn't be a problem for such a smartass as you are to crush all my points. Perhaps I missed something, but I can't find your reply to my post.
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There you go buddy, maybe you can understand now. |
I'm not your buddy. When the hell you will understand this?
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
I read a RUSSIAN magizine in which RUSSIAN gerneral said they were all circle jerking ****ers.
And know, I won't supply a link because Serb said it was not needed. |
Aside you I have at least two people here who actually know what I'm talking about (David Floyd and
Oerdin). It's not surprising, since there was a tread on Apolyton about this some time ago. If you type 'USAF Indian Airforce' in google, you'll get over 5000 links. But I'll give you a couple of links exclusively for you here, just to save your time:
Although service officials have been reluctant to detail how the Indians performed against the six F-15Cs from the 3rd Wing that participated in Cope India, Rep. Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.
The rest of the article here:
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercis...-article01.html
U.S. warned it could lose air supremacy
Friday, June 25, 2004
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- United States must modernize its fighter jets to maintain air supremacy, a top Air Force general said Wednesday citing the success of advanced Russian-made jets against American planes in a recent exercise as signaling an erosion of its overwhelming advantage.
The rest of the article:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/23/ai...supremacy.reut/
Is CNN enough creditable source for you?
Are you happy now?
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15-11-2004 18:58
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