16-11-2004 04:22									#1
	Tape showing US soldiers killing an unarmed and wounded Iraqi Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I haven't been to these forums in a bit, so I don't know if it's already been posted.

Today on the news here we were shown footage of US soldiers in Fallujah. The entered some building filled with dead and wounded Iraqi's. One of the Iraqi wounded got shot by one of the American GIs (we weren't shown who it was who pulled the trigger).

It was quite shocking to say the least... does anyone know any more about this?

	16-11-2004 04:37									#2
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It's on CNN.

	16-11-2004 04:42									#3
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thanks! I'll check it out.

	16-11-2004 04:48									#4
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shooting unarmed prisoners...

surely this is the way to achieve democracy as well as win the hearts and minds of the iraqi people!

	16-11-2004 04:51									#5
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Do you have any link? It doesn't seem to be a top story on www.cnn

	16-11-2004 04:51									#6
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What's one more...

Wait, I won't bother it'll be deleted by Ming anyway.

	16-11-2004 05:00									#7
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The cnn commentator expressed fears that this may encourage insurgents to fight to the death, instead of surrendering.

	16-11-2004 05:05									#8
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I can't find it on CNN either. Or are they just slow at updating their site?

	16-11-2004 05:15									#9
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Whats the fuss about? These things happen in war. Always has, now there only was a reporter to witness it.

	16-11-2004 05:15									#10
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Seems CNN.com has been hacked. They now feature a brief between page when you open cnn.com in a new window.

Cropped (I use 1600x1200 fro my monitor) screenshot:

Attachment: cnnhellohack.jpg
This has been downloaded 302 time(s).

	16-11-2004 05:16									#11
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quote: Originally posted by axi The cnn commentator expressed fears that this may encourage insurgents to fight to the death, instead of surrendering.

Of course, in the face of such a brutal enemy what else can they do?

	16-11-2004 05:17									#12
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Whats the fuss about? These things happen in war. Always has, now there only was a reporter to witness it.

Isn't killing an unarmed and wounded soldier generally recognized as a war crime? Isn't capturing the act on tape generally considered irrefutable evidence of said war crime?

	16-11-2004 05:19									#13
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Sure it is. There are always those who flip out.

	16-11-2004 05:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Whats the fuss about? These things happen in war. Always has, now there only was a reporter to witness it.

And yet this somehow makes it right? I don't know what your definition of murder is, but it isn't mine...

	16-11-2004 05:21									#15
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Did you still think that all US soldiers are saints?

	16-11-2004 05:24									#16
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I'm amazed. I new this happened, but it seems the US can't get away with anything in this war.

	16-11-2004 05:29									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sava shooting unarmed prisoners...

I haven't seen the film but I would like to point out that often times it is difficult to tell if someone is hiding something or not. Also in the GC if you are trying to surrender you are required to put your hands clearly in the air to show you are unarmed. Failure to do this means you can still be considered a combatant.

	16-11-2004 05:32									#18
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Do we know the nature of this man's injuries? Perhaps he couldn't raise his hands, or was too weakened from his wounds to surrender himself under his own power. We just don't know...

	16-11-2004 05:35									#19
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Whats the fuss about? These things happen in war. Always has, now there only was a reporter to witness it.

It's funny -- I could have sworn that American soldiers are trained with the emphasis that unarmed, injured enemy soldiers/insurgents that are clearly not resisting in anyway, are not to be killed.

	16-11-2004 05:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Did you still think that all US soldiers are saints?

I think you are preaching to the wrong person, they clearly are not, but still, my gripe lies with the authorities who control them...

	16-11-2004 05:39									#21
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From what I heard in the tape, the soldier, scared, shouts that "he's faking he's dead" and empties a whole clip on the man. He definitely lost his nerve.

	16-11-2004 05:39									#22
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A whole clip? Ugh.

	16-11-2004 05:51									#23
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Maybe the soldier wanted to play "connect the dots" on the body with the shots?

	16-11-2004 05:53									#24
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MrFun, I'm trying to eat dinner.

	16-11-2004 05:55									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun It's funny -- I could have sworn that American soldiers are trained with the emphasis that unarmed, injured enemy soldiers/insurgents that are clearly not resisting in anyway, are not to be killed.

The major problem in my experience is determining who is unarmed and who is just pretending to be unarmed. The "double tapping" law which covers when you can shot a combatant and when you must care for him has a refrence which might be of help. If your line of advance has not reached the enemies position and if the enemy has not made absolutely clear that he wants to surrender then he is a legal target. Once your line of advance has passed him then it is assumed he is wounded or wants to surrender unless he behaives in a combant style.

	16-11-2004 05:57									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison And yet this somehow makes it right? I don't know what your definition of murder is, but it isn't mine...

Before you rush to judgement my I point out we don't have both sides nor all of the evidence of what actually did occur?

	16-11-2004 06:01									#27
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Correct me if I'm off but WEREN'T ALL CIVILIANS AND NONCOMBATANTS TOLD TO GET THE HECK OUT?

If you move they're going to shoot you. Either you're the enemy or someone Darwin dictates should be removed from the gene pool.

	16-11-2004 06:06									#28
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quote: From what I heard in the tape, the soldier, scared, shouts that "he's faking he's dead" and empties a whole clip on the man. He definitely lost his nerve.

Going on what I've learned on Hardball, the US soldier saw a buddy blown up by a booby trapped body just a few days before and may have thought this guy had a bomb or something. The problem is these Iraqis had been wounded in a previous attack and left there to be picked up later.

Clearly this guy was on edge, who wouldn't be in that situation?

	16-11-2004 06:11									#29
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It's hard to be constently seeing other human beings killed and fearing for your life. The stress really does get to a person and some people crack. It's still wrong and if he did break the law then I'm sure he will be punished. At the end of the day that's what makes us better then Saddam; if one of our guys breaks the law he goes to jail while Saddam gave them a medal.

	16-11-2004 06:14									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Clearly this guy was on edge, who wouldn't be in that situation?

Come man, poly is full of seasoned veterns of Civ, they know all about combat.