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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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1285 AD (continuation)
- Sooo YOU WANNA PIECE OF ME, G(R)EEK?
- War Happiness in Scandinavia! If someone declares war on you, you get a happiness boost. Yes, that's in addition to other bonuses. As you saw before, the Viking people already were happy, so they became incredibly happy now.
- Sign alliance against the Greeks with the Iroquis for Ivory and 20gpt.
- Establish Embassy with Hitties. Sign alliance against the Greeks for Education.
- Now our enemy will be "occupied" locally, so at least part of their forces will be diverted from us.
- Berserks unleashed! Herakleia is now a Viking city.
- Sink the Greek Galley that ventured too far from home.
- I decide to let units walk through former Persia, instead of shipping them all the way to Greece. This way that territory will be safer, because some units will be there at all times. Also, we don't have enough ships to keep sending them on such long trips.
1290 AD
- No Greeks came to attack us this turn. So they are very busy with their neighbours. Good.
- Rushing Walls in former Greek cities. This simple and cheap improvement saved my sorry a$$ a million times in Civ.
- Berserks unleashed! Eretria is now a Viking city. (It is vital to take cities that are close to each other, if only possible. The less enemy borders overlap the city radius, the less risk of a cultural conversion.)
- New Viking settlements in former Persia: Lillehammer, Elverurn, Falun, and Helsinki. More to come - there is still space left.
- Reinforcements arrive in former Greek cities. Start planning an offensive against Knossos. But not with Berserks. Those guys will only go inland after all Greek coastal cities have been conquered.
- Decide to send some units down to our new island. Just in case the Celts get funny thoughts...
- Check the diplomacy screen. People have Chivalry for sale, but it's useless to us. We'll be researching Military tradition soon... (Taking a look at possible trades every now and then is very important. This way you will know what you can sell/buy as soon as the opportunity arises.)
1290 AD
- Some Greeks approach. But not many.
- We have Navigation, so Ocean tiles are safe now. So let's explore what's still unexplored. Sending a caravel into the black north-east of Scandinavia. Meybe that's where the Americans sit. No, it's an island that is unclaimed. Nice.
- By the way, not only Egypt is doing OCC in this game. (see pic below)
 Attachment: babylonian occ.jpg
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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1300 AD
- Sink a Greek Caravel traveling too close to Scandinavia.
- Persepolis designed Settler/Worker pump. It will be set up to produce a Worker each 2 turns or a Settler each 4 turns, presumably for very long. This way other cities can go about their business unbothered.
- The Greeks are sending Cavalry to attack Ephesus. 2 have died so far, and we have an Elite Musketman now.
1305 AD
- Bad news. The Greeks just put a city on that "unclaimed" island north of Scandinavia. I guess we'll have to as for it once peace talks resume. That's way easier than actually sending units to capture it.
- Berserks unleashed! Mycenae is now a Viking city.
- Banking done. Now it's onto Economics. It will allow us to build a very useful wonder.
1310 AD
- Oh, look, some Greeks actually decided to start counter-attacking. So we killed them.
- Thunderfall is a new Viking city near Persepolis.
- Sell Navigation to the Iroquis for 75gp, 40gpt, World Map and Chivalry (I made sure that Chivalry was just a bonus, not the main payment.). A side effect of this is that we can build Knights now.
- Sell Astronomy to Korea for 73gp and 39gpt.
- Sell Ivory to Sumeria for 57gp. In hope of helping them get more gold in 10 turns.
- Sell Invention to England for 15gpt and 71 gp.
- The rest of the world is either broke, or at war with us, so no more trades for now.
- The cash is intantly used for a Temple and a Harbor in conquered lands.
- Now we can have Economy in 5 turns, instead of 7.
1315 AD
- The Greeks approach Mycenae and will take it if nothing is done. Instead of trying to stop the, I take units out of the city... and gift it to China. (They are at peace, so the city should stay non-Greek for some time. )
- Greeks want to talk to us.
1320 AD
- The city of Troy is pretty safe from Greek influence, so it gets a Barracks. Now all arriving Horsemen can be upgraded there, because they are no good against Musketmen.
1325 AD
- Found Copenhagen near Arbela.
- Berserks unleashed! Thessalonica is now a Viking city.
- The Celts are second in score, just after us. So I prepare a nasty surprise for them. I'll keep you informed.
Attachment: celtic surprise.jpg
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:18
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AD 1355: Started, moved a few units around, got my feel of the turn. Traded Metallurgy to the Iroquois for 22gpt, 70gp, and a map (ooh, a map), and 3 workers just for kicks - after all we'll need some for railroads soon enough. And, I want some extra money for that time to be able to up science perhaps above tax sufficiency to hurry through the slow going while we build the railroads and have a huge cost of units. Also upped tax a bit so we would finish a few knights before getting MT. Sell English Education for 4gpt 20gp and a worthless world map.
My first actions will be to beef up our military a bit. Our infrastructure particularly on the main continent is very good, but our military numbers at the moment:
code:
Berserk 20
Caravel 17
Horsemen 17
Knight 3
Musketmen 25
Pikemen 25
Med. Inf. 6
And several other warrior/spear types.
First action: Get us some knights! I honestly would never have traded for chivalry for this very reason. I'd rather pay to upgrade horsemen i can produce 1 per turn in many cities, rather than have to build knights 1 per 3-4 turns and still pay a decent amount to upgrade them, but you work with what you have. I moved a few minor infrastructure producing cities (cathedrals, universities) to knights for the next few turns (and then back to infra) so we would get the cheaper upgrades first.
Second action: Plan our future expansion. I decided the most sensible thing to do was start by taking out each of the lux resources one by one. We likely have all of the strat resources tied up, or can't figure out where they are for a while yet, but either way we need lux resources.
The lay of the land: (IE, possessors of lux resources)
code:
Wines Sumeria, Germany
Dyes Celts, [edit- Indians]
Silks Zulu
Gems Japan
Incense Greeks
Spices China, Iroqouis, Hittites
We'll have Incense soon enough, and we can pick whichever spice owner we feel like attacking after we finish the greeks, given the massive army we'll have. I think the next place i'll go - possibly at the same time as the greeks are finished, because berserks are now of questionable use and we'll have a goodly number of whatever strength cavalry we have in the AU mod ganging up on the greeks. (5/3/3, btw.)
I think the Japanese are the easiest to take (and have the lowest corruption too, conveniently). They also do not have Invention yet (so are easy targets) and are pretty small (12 cities, only 1 over 6). Also, they're close by - can either launch from Ergili or from the mainland, and a fleet of maybe 8-10 caravels could do the job easily. Finally, only 3 of their cities are inland, meaning that 7 cities are easy targets for berserks - in fact i'm going to go set up 7 caravel fleets ASAP.
After that, the Zulu are easier even, a smaller less developed country, and once we take out the greeks they're the logical next step (or the japanese, whichever falls first). I'd at that point take out the Hittites - easiest, they're the least close ally, and closer to home so faster reinforcements.
That would give us 2(now) + 2(greek/hittite) + 2 (Zulu/Japanese) for 6 guaranteed, easy to get luxes. The last two are a bit more time consuming - celts are huge and the biggest score threat to us, and the Wines are going to take some time because of location, although Germany might be pretty easy (Sumeria is huge and mostly inland, like the Celts). [edit- it looks like taking Delhi might be better in the long run, i am sending a berserk force to do that. One city, and some free dyes, assuming we keep the city, ie build some quick culture.]
So, to implement the first 15 turns of that plan ...
Last edited by snoopy369 on 08-12-2004 at 08:21
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
First action: Get us some knights! I honestly would never have traded for chivalry for this very reason. I'd rather pay to upgrade horsemen i can produce 1 per turn in many cities, rather than have to build knights 1 per 3-4 turns and still pay a decent amount to upgrade them, but you work with what you have. I moved a few minor infrastructure producing cities (cathedrals, universities) to knights for the next few turns (and then back to infra) so we would get the cheaper upgrades first.
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Basically this is all ok and posible, but a different game approach than mine. I rather have offensive units built, while keeping defensive ones upgraded. Also, the cash not used for upgrading those Horsemen can be spent on rushing infrastructure in former Persia. And, Cavalry is not so good at amphibious operations anyway.
Sorry, can't stop being a builder all of a sudden. I'm trying, really, but it's so hard. 
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:18
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AD 1360: Just moving around
AD 1365: Pillaged the second of 3 Greek sources of saltpetre, important because it means if they have any trades based on it they either lose it or lose the trade, dropping reputation (not sure which, but both are good).
(Interim): Pharsalos gives up the ghost and culture-flips. Sigh. Saw that coming, there were too many resisters and for some reason I didn't have the heart to starve them. Not sure why really, i usually do. Ah well.
AD 1370: Still not much, more moving and building. Consolidating Horsemen in Barracks cities so they can be upgraded.
(Interim): Blah! Now Marathon is gone too. Good thing it had no horsemen in it. Sigh ... but i can take it back next turn cheaply (1380)...
AD 1375: Thessalonica ... sigh ... this is getting really annoying. Good thing i have a lot of cavalry. (Not as many as I thought, because it would have cost over 1000 gp to do them all - so a few will be next turn. Sigh. But a bunch, anyway.) I intend to do some of the internal cities first, because I can, and because it will cut down on these stupid cities changing hands... However i'm starting to think the better strategy might have been emptying out the cities and sitting with berserkers in boats outside ... 
AD 1380: Upgraded a lot of cavalry as stated last turn. Rest will be 1385. Stuck a boat with some berserkers outside of Delhi in neutral waters, ready for whenever I feel like warring for the dyes (or my successor, since I traded with india for dyes during my turn, so i'll wait the 20 turns and let you decide if/when to attack them).
AD 1385: No cities flip (for the first turn in 4!) However, Korea lands a small force on our MAIN ISLAND. I laugh. 4 Medieval Infantry. is all I have to say to that. Of course, they won't go anywhere; 2 cavalry in the area rush to assist and take care of 2 (although they lost 2 and 3 HP respectively, 5 vs 2 and no river or terrain bonus - i have no clue how that happened). The other 2 won't go anywhere - maybe a pillage at worst. I'm going to be really happy when we hit destroyers/battleships ... I don't think i'll bother with Korea during my reign, although Grandpa and Makahlua can feel free to do whatever they want to the dirty rotten ...
Marathon (re)taken, no losses (only 1 cavalry needed!)... Knossos under serious attack, but can't actually attack yet. Next turn ...
AD 1390: Knossos taken! Pic attached. Woot! No losses, 2 cavalry used. We'll move on - it looks like they're weak. (I was smart, after being stupid, and moved my cav 1 so they wouldn't attack across a river - i could have put them there last turn but was dumb. But I remembered. ) Koreans finished off. Hittites allied with us against Greece. mmmm, more ways for greece to lose ... 3 turns until Japan goes full bore. Woot! Last horsemen upgraded, upped science so Physics finishes relatively quickly.
AD 1395: Celts land on the north end of the small island - I make it more painful if they do by setting up a deal for luxury -> 22 gpt, and a ROP... I needed a few turns to upgrade some units (need to buy harbor and barracks first). Also bringing some cavalry from mainland but it will take 2-3 turns. Thermopylae taken, sustaining my first loss, but i'll have 6-7 useable cavalry (3+ hp) including a couple of elites to send at athens next turn, or i could wait an extra turn and have more (there's a barracks in Thermo.) No more gunpowder units for Greece!
AD 1400: Celts declare war anyway. Pooh, i lost Hammerfest. However, it will be returned in a turn or two. I'm positive, as I upgrade 2 horsemen to cavalry in Sarpsborg, and have one full caravel on its way with cavalry plus a second made for next turn already pre-filled. The Celts will pay. Korea starts JS Bachs; Iroquois also have the tech but won't trade it.
Invasion of Japan gives mixed results. Only 2 cities are captured; our 6/2 berserks lose about half the battles, which is a lot in Kagoshima and Nagasaki (although expected in Nagoya). The assault on Nagasaki fails; the other two succeed only because resources are redeployed to ensure success. However, we still have plenty of berserks (including a whole ship that are unused because they were unlikely to beat their city alone) and two ships of cavalry almost there (plus an excess of musketmen, 3 per city since i had 1 musketman per city) so barring any culture flips we'll be ok. And we got gems (with a harbor)!
AD 1405: Conquer Athens! WOOT! We have no more greek capital. Well, it made its way to Sparta, but whatever. That will be a few turns (2, anyway.) Also took Argos (with 2 cavalry, in 2 runs Piece of cake! Now it's Sparta, Corinth, and retaking the 2 coastal cities that should be underdefended. And then we just have Delphi and Mycanae in the north, Rhodes in the SouthEast, and some island cities that we're not real worried about (and the Iroqois might take care of - who knows?)
AD 1410: Bad RNG luck all around. Eretria leaves us (after the capital moves *further away* ... sheesh?) and I lose 2 cavalry attacking ... a knight in Hammerfest. No walls, rivers, hills, anything ... 5 vs 3, lose, no promotion, 5 vs 3, lose, no promotion *or HP loss* ... sigh. I hate RNG sometimes. Civ4 anyone? However, 6 cavalry land outside Hammerfest, so we should be ok next turn. Also lost a musketman to a swordsman ... and he was fortified on a hill town (walls not done until after the battle). 3 vs 7 anyone?? Anyway, my other musketman was fine and a third landed this turn from another ship (2nd now) so i'm ok. It's surrounded by hills though so i can't easily defend myself offensively. Waiting for about a dozen horsemen to kill themselves on the now-walled musketmen before I push out to Kyoto (which should be easy, i only have what about 12 berserkers or something to take it with ... but then these japanese have been fighting pretty hard) That, and the cavalry that just got here ...
AD 1415: Japanese attack, but fail to score a victory (lower the musketmen to 2 and 1 hp respectively, but they're still alive and a lot of japanese aren't! Physics is researched, and now it's on to Theory of Gravity. Hammerfest is recaptured thanks to the RNG, with only 2 hp total lost to 3 units (and none to the pesky knight who was 5/5 now! Revenge is best served COLD ) Sparta doesn't go as well as most of the other greek cities, with the RNG nearly stopping me cold, but I fought back and used a 1/4 cavalry to finish the last 1/4 musket (they had 7, which killed 3 and wounded 1 cavalry). Sun Tzu is ours! The Greeks are (nearly) broken! Bergen suffers another Korean "attack" (ie 2 medieval infantry, the 9th and 10th of the attack, land nearby) and crushes it with 2 cavs, one of which is now Elite! Attack on Kyoto commences; 3 of 5 cavalry survive, but only 2 win; but only 3 more units inside and they're weakish (probably a barracks, but who knows?) and a ton of berserks are waiting outside to finish them off. Pretty soon the might of Japan will collapse into ... something, not sure what. Something ... small.
I'm cutting off now, as it's waaaay too late and i need sleep. Makahlua, I gift you 2 of my 15 turns, use them wisely. (Or grandpa, or whomever feels like taking them. I don't care. But it's 1am and i need sleep.)
Attachment: knossos.jpg
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
Basically this is all ok and posible, but a different game approach than mine. I rather have offensive units built, while keeping defensive ones upgraded. Also, the cash not used for upgrading those Horsemen can be spent on rushing infrastructure in former Persia. And, Cavalry is not so good at amphibious operations anyway.
Sorry, can't stop being a builder all of a sudden. I'm trying, really, but it's so hard. |
Basically the difference, however, was about 10-15 turns realtime in the war - the difference between the rest of our greek cities folding or not. It would have taken at LEAST 10-15 turns to get even 10 cavalry to the greek front without buying them, and notice how many flipped anyway; this way I had 12 at the front the first turn of mil trad... for nothing, basically, but a few turns later of science, which we can afford, since they're working on silly science and we're doing the important stuff. Builder, that's me too - but when I go to war, I don't mess around.
Yes, cav are not amphibious - but they're better for internal cities, and we were done (except for flips) with coastal cities. I actually redirected all of the berserks that weren't lost in flips (only 2 i think were lost) to Japan, in what in retrospect was a slightly-too-early move, but it worked out adequately, if not perfectly.
Greece, 1415 ...
Attachment: greece 1415.jpg
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07-12-2004 19:38
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