03-12-2004 01:26									#451
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Good to see we've infected you with decadent western greed.

Nice to see you too. You appear to be in prime form.

-Arrian

	03-12-2004 01:30									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Besides, Ukraine owns billions of USD to Russia for gas and Russia can, REALLY can destroy the economy of Ukraine ANY time it wishes, by turing off the gas pipe. So what? I can say the same for EU - Russia is their important trade partner, they can't find an alternative for Russian gas&oil.

I would suggest that any europeans reading this play CLOSE attention, and think about the situation youre in. Serb makes some very compelling points, which have perhaps been ignored for too long.

	03-12-2004 01:35									#453
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and may I suggest Serb, that you continue to post as you do? You cant imagine how much good will you are winning for your country.


And I would also suggest that your government should stand firm on the Ukraine. Dont allow any western interference on the part of idiot Yuschenko, and his whore. Give all encouragement you can to the forces opposed to them. And dont hesistate to threaten to shut off gas to them. Do it publicly and soon, in case anyone hasnt gotten the message. This should help clarify Russias views.

And please continue to make clear to everyone how united the US and the EU are in all this, how Chirac, Schroeder, Blair and Bush are all perfectly aligned in this nefarious scheme. This will impress the Euros with Russias political acuity. Especially keep reminding us how the BBC and Foxnews are essentially the same.

Thanks for all you do.

	03-12-2004 01:47									#454
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Good to see we've infected you with decadent western greed. Nice to see you too. You appear to be in prime form. -Arrian

I'm doing my best.
I have a 1/4 of Ukranian blood, after all. So this situation really means much for me, despite I'm 100% Russian. I really can't explain this "contradiction".

	03-12-2004 01:52									#455
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I'm doing my best. I have a 1/4 of Ukranian blood, after all. So this situation really means much for me, despite I'm 100% Russian. I really can't explain this "contradiction".

No contradiction at all Serb. We all understand that Ukraine isnt a "foreign" country to Russia.

	03-12-2004 01:58									#456
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I would suggest that any europeans reading this play CLOSE attention, and think about the situation youre in. Serb makes some very compelling points, which have perhaps been ignored for too long.

Yeah right. Our national debt is about 140 billion. Ukraine own us about a couple of billion. We just forgive about 9 billion of Iraqis debt to us. But don't worry, US and EU already f*cked-up my country via IMF when they had a possibility. Now we pay-off our debts regularly, and non of our creditors complain about our obligations. On the other hand Ukraine, pay us nothing, they only make their debt bigger year after year. One day we will say f*ck it, give us a real money or get lost. Everything has its limits, even Russia's patience.
Btw, what is your national debt. I heard its about a thousand times bigger than Russia's national debt.

	03-12-2004 02:01									#457
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark No contradiction at all Serb. We all understand that Ukraine isnt a "foreign" country to Russia.

Thank you very much for your understanding.
Just to make it even more clear for you, I should add that Russia isn't a foreign country for Ukraine, as well.

	03-12-2004 02:05									#458
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I say we nuke 'em.

	03-12-2004 02:07									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Yeah right. Our national debt is about 140 billion. Ukraine own us about a couple of billion. We just forgive about 9 billion of Iraqis debt to us. But don't worry, US and EU already f*cked-up my country via IMF when they had a possibility

I hope the IMF ceases to "f*ck up your country" by extending any more loans. Id have no problem with that.

	03-12-2004 02:09									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Thank you very much for your understanding. Just to make it even more clear for you, I should add that Russia isn't a foreign country for Ukraine, as well.

Of course not. Which is why Russian interference in Ukraine is NOT foreign interference. Keep making that clear.

	03-12-2004 02:10									#461
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Yeah right. Our national debt is about 140 billion. Ukraine own us about a couple of billion. We just forgive about 9 billion of Iraqis debt to us. But don't worry, US and EU already f*cked-up my country via IMF when they had a possibility. Now we pay-off our debts regularly, and non of our creditors complain about our obligations.

Yup, $50 a barrel oil sure helps.

	03-12-2004 02:14									#462
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP I say we nuke 'em.

Please, specify your target.

In case if you gonna nuke Russia you'll wake up (if lucky enough, of course) in a nice radiactive wasteland, where you could play Fallout for the rest of your life.

	03-12-2004 02:17									#463
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Has Russia suddenly conquered the Ukraine again? Or are you lost in a drunken stupor?

	03-12-2004 02:20									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Just my two cents, Both Polish and Lithuanian presidents sucks. Thank you.

And they say people like ones alike

	03-12-2004 02:22									#465
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I hope the IMF ceases to "f*ck up your country" by extending any more loans. Id have no problem with that.

Not only that, they forced Yeltsin to "reform" the Russian economy in a way they wanted. It was their condition for a new loans (that allow us to pay back % for old loans). This resulted in a complete f*ck-up.
But when Putin came and said "thank you very much the dearest of our friends, the IMF, but now please, get the f*ck out" we started to do OK. At least we don't take any more loans and pay back regularly.
So what about your debt? It is about a thousand times greater than the Russian debt, isn't it?

	03-12-2004 02:24									#466
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Has Russia suddenly conquered the Ukraine again? Or are you lost in a drunken stupor?

Like you ever came out of drunken stupor.

To your knowledge, Russia never conquered Ukraine.

	03-12-2004 02:26									#467
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Not only that, they forced Yeltsin to "reform" the Russian economy in a way they wanted. It was their condition for a new loans (that allow us to pay back % for old loans). This resulted in a complete f*ck-up. But when Putin came and said "thank you very much the dearest of our friends, the IMF, but now please, get the f*ck out" we started to do OK.

The increase in oil prices was just a coincidence, of course.

	03-12-2004 02:32									#468
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Not only that, they forced Yeltsin to "reform" the Russian economy in a way they wanted. It was their condition for a new loans (that allow us to pay back % for old loans). This resulted in a complete f*ck-up. But when Putin came and said "thank you very much the dearest of our friends, the IMF, but now please, get the f*ck out" we started to do OK. At least we don't take any more loans and pay back regularly. So what about your debt? It is about a thousand times greater than the Russian debt, isn't it?

Yup. Total US interest payments on the national debt, estimated, Fiscal Year 2004 = $321 billion.

Total Russian GDP, 2003 = $460 billion.

The interest payments on our debt are almost as larg as Russias entire GDP.

you might also find this interesting

"U.S. Assistance to Russia
The total amount budgeted by all U.S. Government agencies for assistance programs in Russia in FY04 is $880.2 million. This sum has been allocated for five sectors: Democracy Programs, Economic and Social Reform, Security and Law Enforcement, Humanitarian Assistance, and Cross Sectoral Initiatives. The United States provided over $660,000 worth of medical equipment, supplies, and other humanitarian assistance in the wake of the school hostage-taking tragedy in Beslan in September 2004.

Democracy Programs ($45.3 million). U.S. assistance has faced a number of challenges given Russia’s inconsistent progress toward a democratic system. Programs have focused on supporting civil society, independent media, local government reform, the rule of law, and increasing voter participation. In particular, democratic assistance helps improve voter education, election monitoring, and training for young people and political leaders. U.S. technical assistance programs have helped Russia make significant strides in the development of an independent judiciary, which has held hundreds of successful local, regional and national elections. Democratic assistance has also strengthened NGOs. U.S. programs have provided training for journalists and work to establish better partnerships between Russian and American legal officials, and have helped to train several thousand local and regional television and radio stations.

Economic and Social Reform ($51.4 million). U.S. assistance programs support the small-to-medium-sized enterprise sector by training entrepreneurs and supporting non-bank credit institutions to respond to the need for credit to expand businesses and create jobs. Other programs are helping the Russian banking system transform itself into an effective intermediary of funds. In recent years, U.S. enterprise funds have allowed Russian companies to grow and turn handsome profits. U.S.-funded assistance programs also support Russia’s efforts to address its serious problems in health and child welfare by encouraging improvements in primary healthcare, particularly for women and infants. Our success is evident in the reversal of Russia’s infant mortality rate, which had been increasing over the past fifteen years. Another primary focus of U.S. assistance is the problem of HIV/AIDS infection in Russa; our activities are targeting reductions in HIV/AIDS infection by improving evidence-based models and practices.

Security and Law Enforcement Programs ($773.1 million). The bulk of U.S. assistance programs in the security area help Russia to consolidate, secure, destroy, or dismantle weapons of mass destruction. The Department of Defense’s Cooperative Threat Reduction program is assisting Russia with the destruction of missiles and related equipment systems, as well as the construction a facility for the safe destruction of chemical weapons. Through the International Military Education and Training Program (IMET), the United States is providing English language instruction, professional military education, and military legal and peacekeeping training for Russian military and officials of the Ministry of Defense. The Anti-Crime Training and Technical Assistance program supports diverse activities, including the implementation of the July 2002 Criminal Procedure Code, adoption of modern investigative techniques, the development of US-Russian legal cooperation under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT), adoption of community-based policing in the Sakhalin region of the Russian Far East, and support of research into crime and corruption in Russia.

Humanitarian Assistance ($5.4 million). U.S.-based private volunteer organizations funded by the Department of State Humanitarian Transport Program distribute humanitarian assistance to the most needy regions of Russia. Since 1992, this program has facilitated the delivery of nearly $670 million in humanitarian commodities to Russia at a cost of $68 million. The total value of the humanitarian commodities provided to Russia in FY04 is estimated to be in excess of $6 million. This program will conclude at the end of FY04.

Cross-Sectoral Initiatives ($4.9 million). Some assistance cuts across traditional program borders. One of our natural resource assistance programs, for example, combines sound business and ecological techniques; another assistance program helps independent Russian research and policy institutions produce scholarly articles and advice for Russian policymakers. U.S. government assistance is also helping to bring civil society, local government, media, and business together to promote democracy and combat corruption across Russia. The "Regional Initiative," a program operated by the State Department, works to promote cross-cutting development in selected areas of the country outside of the major population centers. Current areas of focus are the Volga Federal District, the Tomsk/Novosibirsk area of Siberia, and the Russian Far East. This program helps coordinate assistance activities in these regions, provides information to local residents about programs active in the area, and encourages greater participation of regional governments in on-going programs.

Additionally, exchange programs are a vital component of our assistance programs in all areas. In FY03, approximately 5,000 Russians came to the United States on U.S.-funded exchange and professional training programs. Since 1993, over 58,000 Russians have come to the United States on these programs.

Many agencies of the United States Government implement assistance programs, including the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), the Departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Energy, Health and Human Services, Justice, Labor and State, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. "

	03-12-2004 02:51									#469
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark and may I suggest Serb, that you continue to post as you do?

You don't have to, I will anyway.

quote: You cant imagine how much good will you are winning for your country.

No, I can't. It is my leadership to decide am I good or not. I'm with KGB as you may know.

quote: And I would also suggest that your government should stand firm on the Ukraine. Dont allow any western interference on the part of idiot Yuschenko, and his whore.

quote: Give all encouragement you can to the forces opposed to them. And dont hesistate to threaten to shut off gas to them. Do it publicly and soon, in case anyone hasnt gotten the message. This should help clarify Russias views.

We had to do it long time ago. They weren't nice towards Russia, publicity insulted Russia by making monuments to "heroes" of SS divisions, and name their streets after Djahar Dudaev, etc. So why the hell we should be nice to Ukraine if it will be rulled by hostile governmet who support all those things (a bunch of f*cking nazi)? Esp. considering that we give them gas&oil for debt. They don't pay us despite we "sell" them gas by our internal prices that a several times lower than the market prices. We can f*ck their economy anytime we wish, even without demands to payback their debts, just by stopping to provide gas&oil for them. EU and US can't do the same with Russia, so your suggestion from the previous post means nothing.

quote: And please continue to make clear to everyone how united the US and the EU are in all this, how Chirac, Schroeder, Blair and Bush are all perfectly aligned in this nefarious scheme.

You know, sometimes even a deadly enemies (like SU, US and GB during WW2, not to mention such "enemies" as US and EU tied by NATO) could have a mutual interests over some issues.

quote: This will impress the Euros with Russias political acuity. Especially keep reminding us how the BBC and Foxnews are essentially the same.

Unfortunatelly I don't have a luxury of recieving the FOX news, I can only recieve the BBC news. But I visit the CNN site quite often and I can assure you, that their coverage of events regarding (or relating to) Russia is pretty alike.

quote: Thanks for all you do.

You are welcome.

	03-12-2004 03:05									#470
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Esp. considering that we give them gas&oil for debt. They don't pay us despite we "sell" them gas by our internal prices that a several times lower than the market prices.

Pardon me, but wouldnt one expect the price of Natural Gas, which is expensive to transport, to be lower close to the region its produced in than to the "world" price? Surely the Algerians dont charge the Moroccans for Gas the same price that commands in Boston? Where are you getting the "world" price? Arent all commodities priced based on delivery to specified market point?

	03-12-2004 03:07									#471
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quote: Originally posted by Serb You know, sometimes even a deadly enemies (like SU, US and GB during WW2, not to mention such "enemies" as US and EU tied by NATO) could have a mutual interests over some issues.

Well Im sure glad its not me who just implicity compared Putins Russia to Hitlers Germany. Such a comparison is entirely wrong and uncalled for in my opinion. Really.

	03-12-2004 03:09									#472
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quote: Originally posted by Serb We had to do it long time ago. They weren't nice towards Russia, publicity insulted Russia by making monuments to "heroes" of SS divisions, and name their streets after Djahar Dudaev, etc. So why the hell we should be nice to Ukraine if it will be rulled by hostile governmet who support all those things (a bunch of f*cking nazi)? Esp. considering that we give them gas&oil for debt. They don't pay us despite we "sell" them gas by our internal prices that a several times lower than the market prices. We can f*ck their economy anytime we wish, even without demands to payback their debts, just by stopping to provide gas&oil for them.

You will of course have to sell that gas somewhere else, if you dont want to lose the revenues. You are trying to make a deal with Japan, IIUC? I hope Japanese are reading this closely too.

	03-12-2004 03:16									#473
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark "U.S. Assistance to Russia The total amount budgeted by all U.S. Government agencies for assistance programs in Russia in FY04 is $880.2 million. This sum has been allocated for five sectors: Democracy Programs, Economic and Social Reform, Security and Law Enforcement, Humanitarian Assistance, and Cross Sectoral Initiatives. The United States provided over $660,000 worth of medical equipment, supplies, and other humanitarian assistance in the wake of the school hostage-taking tragedy in Beslan in September 2004.

Amount of Russian Assistance to USA: Zero, Nada

PWNED!!!!!

	03-12-2004 03:22									#474
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Oh, that reminds me when, during communistic times, our public relation ministry was sending matresses for the homeless in USA

	03-12-2004 03:29									#475
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Pardon me, but wouldnt one expect the price of Natural Gas, which is expensive to transport, to be lower close to the region its produced in than to the "world" price? Surely the Algerians dont charge the Moroccans for Gas the same price that commands in Boston? Where are you getting the "world" price?

Of course, I should have said European prices instead of worldwide. The problem is that we transport our gas to Europe through Ukrainian territory. So if will turn-off the pipe, Gasprom (state company) will sure lose sh!tloads of money, but Russia can afford it, while Ukraine can't. It's simply not possible to find SUCH CHEAP source of gas for their industry, esp. to find it quickly.
Ukraine "buys" (actully pays nothing, only increase their debt to Russia) for a price established within Russia's borders, like it is a part of Russian Federation, the same gas cost a several times more just a few kilometers from Ukrainian border - in EU.

quote: Arent all commodities priced based on delivery to specified market point?

Not in Russia, we have a single tarrifs for gas&oil. The prices of gas&oil are pretty much equal within the borders of the country. It is the matter of our survival. This internal price is way lower than external price for the same goods.
We use the internal Russian price to deal with Ukraine, Beylorussia and other countries of CIS, it's pretty stupid if you ask me, considering that they are independent states and most of them just re-sell some of this gas&oil to world market to make a good profit for themselves.

	03-12-2004 03:32									#476
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Of course not. Which is why Russian interference in Ukraine is NOT foreign interference. Keep making that clear.

WHAT Russian interference?

	03-12-2004 03:35									#477
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Yup, $50 a barrel oil sure helps.

Hey, it was your Emperor's idea to invade Iraq afterall, so don't blame us.

	03-12-2004 03:36									#478
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quote: Originally posted by Serb We use the internal Russian price to deal with Ukraine, Beylorussia and other countries of CIS, it's pretty stupid if you ask me,

Actually its pretty smart, you sell at a low price to the low income, price sensitive markets, and a high price to the high income, price insensitive markets. If you raised the price to EU prices, they probably coudnt afford as much - theyd have to use less, even if it meant contracting their economy, or certain energy intensive sectors of it.

I sympathize with the problems of reselling though. Thats a concern for US pharamaceutical makers, pressured to sell at discount prices to 3rd world countries.

	03-12-2004 03:37									#479
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quote: Originally posted by Serb WHAT Russian interference?

Well IF there were Russian interference. Not that there is

	03-12-2004 03:38									#480
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Hey, it was your Emperor's idea to invade Iraq afterall, so don't blame us.

Iraq exports are close to what they were pre-war. The real issue is economic growth in consumer countries, esp east asia, IIUC.