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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Yup. Total US interest payments on the national debt, estimated, Fiscal Year 2004 = $321 billion.
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So care about your own debt, instead.
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you might also find this interesting
"U.S. Assistance to Russia
The total amount budgeted by all U.S. Government agencies for assistance programs in Russia in FY04 is $880.2 million. This sum has been allocated for five sectors: |
Ok, let's see.
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Democracy Programs ($45.3 million) |
Read- training of spies, opposition and cadres for owerthrow of the Putin's government.
QUOTE], Economic and Social Reform, ($51.4 million)[/QUOTE]
Read- training of mofos who will try to f*ck-up Russia's economy once again.
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, Humanitarian Assistance ($5.4 million) and Cross Sectoral Initiatives ($4.9 million) |
Wow!!! It's a sh!tload of money. You know the region where I live has an annual budget (a budget, not a gross product) of 2 billions of USD and it is only the one (and not the richest) of the 88 regions of Russia. So, 5.4 million spreaded among entire Russia sure helps a lot.
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The United States provided over $660,000 worth of medical equipment, supplies, and other humanitarian assistance in the wake of the school hostage-taking tragedy in Beslan in September 2004. |
Thanks. (No jocking here).
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Security and Law Enforcement Programs ($773.1 million).The bulk of U.S. assistance programs in the security area help Russia to consolidate, secure, destroy, or dismantle weapons of mass destruction. |
[QUOTE]
Here we are. Here we come to the jewel of this article- so, $773.1 million out of $880.2 million actually comes to disarm Russia.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT KIND OF F*CKING HELP.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
The delivered price of Gas is the same in Western Siberia as it is in St Petersburg? Sounds more like a matter of subsidizing economic activity in St Petersburg, etc than of survival. |
Sure it is a matter of subsidizing economic activity, but not only in St. Petrsburg, but in entire Russia. The government subsidize (well, it's not exactly a subsidy, they just say- sell a part of gas&oil you drill from OUR land to locals for OUR price or get the f*ck out, the rest you can trade abroad for whatever price you wish (just don't forget to pay taxes, one mofo from Yukos forgot to pay taxes, now he is in jail, so don't nake his mistakes) that branch of economy, because otherwise the bulk of population of Russia would simply die (it's a damn cold here at winter, for exaple now it's -25C outside and it's only a third day of winter). In case if the price for an energy carriers would be the same as their price outside Russia, millions of Russians wouldn't afford it and died during the winter. Thus population of Russia would be decreased to the level of population of Canada and even less actually, since we live in more harsh conditions than Canadians. That's is not acceptable for our government and that's way oil&gas&electricity cost here way less than elsewhere.
But I don't see why we should use the same low price to deal with Ukraine, esp. considering that there will be a hostile governmnet and considering that they actually do not pay us even for such low prices.
Last edited by Serb on 03-12-2004 at 04:42
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Well Im sure glad its not me who just implicity compared Putins Russia to Hitlers Germany. Such a comparison is entirely wrong and uncalled for in my opinion. Really. |
Ok it was a bad example, and a nice troll.
Try French and Russian assitance to US in times of American revolution (but I'm not really sure you are aware of the Russian fleet sent to American coast to help you against the Brits).
Last edited by Serb on 03-12-2004 at 05:46
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
You will of course have to sell that gas somewhere else, if you dont want to lose the revenues. |
We can't sell that gas elsewhere without significant losses and construction of new pipe lines which reqires both time and investments. But we can afford such loses, Ukraine can't, their whole economy depend on our gas, they are just a fricking gas addicts, despite they have a large coal stockpiles.
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You are trying to make a deal with Japan, IIUC? I hope Japanese are reading this closely too. |
Sure, not only with Japan, but with China as well. We open new markets (make more gas&oil addicts to screw them up later). EU are addicted to Russian gas too. If could only we deliver it to US somehow...
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Barinthus
Amount of Russian Assistance to USA: Zero, Nada
PWNED!!!!! |
We've already helped them enough by f*cked-up oureselves in 1991.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Actually its pretty smart, you sell at a low price to the low income, price sensitive markets, and a high price to the high income, price insensitive markets. If you raised the price to EU prices, they probably coudnt afford as much - theyd have to use less, even if it meant contracting their economy, or certain energy intensive sectors of it.
I sympathize with the problems of reselling though. Thats a concern for US pharamaceutical makers, pressured to sell at discount prices to 3rd world countries. |
I would agree with you, if the situation would be like - a candy costs 1$, but if you'll by a hundred it will cost you only 70$.
But the current situation is- a candy cost a 1$, but I can sell it for this price only in Europe, if you let me transport it through your territory. To let me in, you demand that for you this candy should cost the same price as for my own children- only 10 cents. Ok- you want to buy a thousand? Damn. So I'll get only 100$ instead of 1000$. Ok, but why do you pay only 50$ for a thousand? Don't have money? Ok. May I move on now? I have to sell ten thousands to cover my expenses, including this bribe... I mean a gift. Then you follow the same road- to EU market and sell 500 candies (you "bought" from me for 25$) for 500$ and still don't payback 50$ you owe me.
We should stop it. Ukraine is the independent country and if it will be rulled by hostile towards Russia government, I see no reason to make them such a gifts anymore.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
We can't sell that gas elsewhere without significant losses and construction of new pipe lines which reqires both time and investments. But we can afford such loses, Ukraine can't, their whole economy depend on our gas, they are just a fricking gas addicts, despite they have a large coal stockpiles.
Sure, not only with Japan, but with China as well. We open new markets (make more gas&oil addicts to screw them up later). EU are addicted to Russian gas too. If could only we deliver it to US somehow... |
Please make up your mind. Either you can sell gas&oil to other or you can't. And stop babbeling about losses because you may have to build other pipelines, that's BS. Either it's worth building them and then you do otherwise dont. My guess is that it will be worth it.
You also seems to have some wet dreams about EU crumbling if Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia shut down it's supplies of oil and gas to EU. Yes, of course it would be an annoyance, but so what ? That we have tried before and the result was that we found other ways to get our energy. No, the real looser would be Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia because it can't afford the loss of income more than five or six months, otherwise it will have to face yet another revolution.
The same goes for Ukraine. If it decides that it no longer will allow Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia oil and gas pipes to transport products, then it hurts russia more than Ukraine. I'll not say it will be easy for Ukraine with such a solution in the short term, but in the long they will be better of.
About the point about dismantling nuclear waepons for us money - well if i was you a would be down on my knees thanking the US. If they didn't use those money (where the fck is EU in this case ?) nuclear disasters due to missing maintenance every other day.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Barinthus
 Can you give me some information so I can look this up or something? If Russians did send some assistance during that time, I am interested in knowing more. |
It's a classified information, well... a misinformation actually.
It wasn't against the Brits and not during the revolution. It was against south during the civil war. In 1863, Great Britain, using an insurrection in Poland as her pretext, again decided to put together an anti-Russian alliance. Russia responded by defending the Gulf of Finland and also dispatching cruisers.The Atlantic squadron of Rear Admiral Lesovsky, including the screw-frigates Alexander Nevsky, Oslyabya, Peresvet, the corvettes Vityaz and Varyag and the clipper Almaz, arrived in New York. At approximately the same time, Popov's squadron of propeller corvettes Bogatyr, Kalevala, Rynda and the clippers Abrek and Gaydamak gathered at ports on the west coast of the United States. This 'American expedition' enabled the Russian fleet to achieve two objectives. Firstly, Great Britain did not continue its naval struggle with Russia because the British perceived a very real threat at sea. Second, by their presence, Russian seamen were able to support the United States in its struggle with the Confederacy.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
Please make up your mind. Either you can sell gas&oil to other or you can't. And stop babbeling about losses because you may have to build other pipelines, that's BS. Either it's worth building them and then you do otherwise dont. My guess is that it will be worth it.
You also seems to have some wet dreams about EU crumbling if Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia shut down it's supplies of oil and gas to EU. Yes, of course it would be an annoyance, but so what ? That we have tried before and the result was that we found other ways to get our energy. No, the real looser would be Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia because it can't afford the loss of income more than five or six months, otherwise it will have to face yet another revolution.
The same goes for Ukraine. If it decides that it no longer will allow Sov.. ups, USS.. ups, russia oil and gas pipes to transport products, then it hurts russia more than Ukraine. I'll not say it will be easy for Ukraine with such a solution in the short term, but in the long they will be better of.
About the point about dismantling nuclear waepons for us money - well if i was you a would be down on my knees thanking the US. If they didn't use those money (where the fck is EU in this case ?) nuclear disasters due to missing maintenance every other day. |
In case if we will stop to give gas to Ukraine, we also will stop to deliver it to EU, because it is transported through Ukrainian territory. And you'll be the first to beg us to continue delivery and the first to press Ukraine to accept our claims and payback their debts to Russia. It will hurt us no doubt, but saying that it will hurt Ukraine less than Russia is plain bullsh!t, because in this case entire Ukrainan economy will collapse, their industry will halt, their cities will freeze and it will be a thousand time more a crisis than they experience now. For Russia it would only mean lost money, since the export of gas to EU through Ukrainan territory isn't the only source of our income. We make much more money by selling oil to the world market.
You seem to do not realize that in modern world oil&gas pipe is no less dangerous weapon than nukes. Ukraine depend on us and our gas, as well as you do. For Russia this scenario means no good, for EU it means no good, for Ukraine it means- total pizdec (don't have a proper English word for that). The only alternative for EU is solar energy and other alternative sources. And you guys are making allright in that regard, but it's still a long road.
Last edited by Serb on 05-12-2004 at 08:18
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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:18
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For anyone who believes Yushchenko is a US puppet, its worth noting he favors a pullout of Ukranian troops from Iraq.
quote:
KIEV, Dec. 3 (Xinhuanet) -- Ukraine's parliament approved a proposal Friday demanding troops withdrawal from Iraq, the Interfax news agency reported.
A total of 257 members in the 450-seat chamber approved the proposal urging pullout of the 1,600 troops from Iraq, which was the fourth largest contingent in the US-led coalition.
Both of the contestants for the presidency, pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich and West-leaning opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko, favor a troops pullout.
Ukraine has been locked in a political crisis since the Nov. 21 presidential runoff, in which Prime Minister Yanukovich won. But the opposition rejected the result.
The two sides are waiting for a verdict of the Supreme Court, which has been meeting all week to consider the opposition's allegations that the presidential runoff elections on Nov. 21 were rigged to favor Yanukovich. |
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2...ent_2292013.htm
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
It's a classified information, well... a misinformation actually.
It wasn't against the Brits and not during the revolution. It was against south during the civil war. In 1863, Great Britain, using an insurrection in Poland as her pretext, again decided to put together an anti-Russian alliance. Russia responded by defending the Gulf of Finland and also dispatching cruisers.The Atlantic squadron of Rear Admiral Lesovsky, including the screw-frigates Alexander Nevsky, Oslyabya, Peresvet, the corvettes Vityaz and Varyag and the clipper Almaz, arrived in New York. At approximately the same time, Popov's squadron of propeller corvettes Bogatyr, Kalevala, Rynda and the clippers Abrek and Gaydamak gathered at ports on the west coast of the United States. This 'American expedition' enabled the Russian fleet to achieve two objectives. Firstly, Great Britain did not continue its naval struggle with Russia because the British perceived a very real threat at sea. Second, by their presence, Russian seamen were able to support the United States in its struggle with the Confederacy. |
Was a single one of those ships an ironclad? If not they would have been dead meat in a prolonged naval war with Britain in 1863. In any case by 1863 the possibility of British intervention in the US civil war was basically nil. I also dont recall that the Russian ships engaged in blockade duty, which was the only major action seagoing ships of the USN were engaged in. Sounds more like the US was giving the Russians friendly ports to run to if the RN went after them. And i suspect the reasons the Brits backed down was because the Polish revolution failed, which essentially happened in '63, IIRC.
However Russia DID provide diplomatic support to the Union during the American Civil War, for which we thank you. However I was addressing current economic conditions, NOT the entire history of US- Russian relations, which would have shown US aid to Russia that dwarfs the current amounts.
Yes, most of it goes for disarming wmds. The US is bound by the same treaties Russia is - we've been disarming our OWN cold war stocks of chemical weapons, at considerable cost. WE, however are paying those costs ourselves. Russia needs financial help in doing so.
Which is no shame on Russia I might add. Your economy was held back from the mid-60s to 1991 by a Communist system that couldnt adjust to new economic conditions, and had difficulty making the transition in the '90s. Someday you WILL make that transition, and you will grow prosperous. However it is a mistake to confuse the post '98 burst of Russiangrowth due to largely to the price of oil and gas (which, BTW, was increasing as far back as 1999, driven by global economic growth - including the Clinton boom)
with the overcoming of Russias structural problems.
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03-12-2004 03:38
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