27-12-2004 23:54									#751
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Keep your BS for Yankees or Euros. I know what's going on there. If everything is so perfect there, then how the hell can you explain Russian exodus from Baltic states.

Russian speakers would rather live in a Russian speaking state than one where Russian has no official status, especially with Russia doing better economically and becoming more stable. Does an exodus always mean persecution? Surely you dont want to go into the details of THAT do you Serb?

	27-12-2004 23:55									#752
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark a former employee, IIUC, and not one of any high level of influence. As someone whos worked with state department employees, including ones in the sections that maintain equipment, store diplomats belongings while overseas, etc, I can tell you State Dept employee doesnt necessarily = decisionmaker.

There are no former State Department employees!! And, don't you understand, she does not need to be at a high level of infulence! She will serve merely as a messanger!

	27-12-2004 23:56									#753
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Well, one of the candidates publically demolished, another candidate commiting a coup before the vote, the people blackmailed by the most powerful block of foreign states... I would say that that was a special influence indeed.

Except there was no blackmail.

	27-12-2004 23:56									#754
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Well, one of the candidates publically demolished, another candidate commiting a coup before the vote, the people blackmailed by the most powerful block of foreign states... I would say that that was a special influence indeed.

The candidate that was publically demolished was Yushchenko. They ****ed him up with dioxin and Yanukovich attempted to get in millions of illegal ballots. Yanukovich was the one attempting a coup. Yushchenko won the election fair and square. By the way, the Russians have more of a strangle-hold on Ukraine then the west. It was mighty bold for the Ukrainean people to stand up against your dictator, Putin.

	27-12-2004 23:57									#755
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond There are no former State Department employees!!

BS. The Department of State isnt some nefarious secret organization. Its just a large bureaucracy, like any other US govt Department.


Vag, you are really sounding seriously tinfoil hat here.

	27-12-2004 23:58									#756
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond There are no former State Department employees!! And, don't you understand, she does not need to be at a high level of infulence! She will serve merely as a messanger!

Just as Yanukovich serves as a servant to Moscow!

	27-12-2004 23:58									#757
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo That's better then being ruled directly by Moscow, by a man who has Soviet styled economic beliefs. Yanukovich represents the corruption, and represents Kuchma. Kuchma was better gone. You need to grow up and learn that your country cannot direct other countries anymore.

Oh, please... Just keep reading "Washington Post", or whatever 'free' press you choose to read.

	27-12-2004 23:59									#758
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo That's better then being ruled directly by Moscow, by a man who has Soviet styled economic beliefs. Yanukovich represents the corruption, and represents Kuchma. Kuchma was better gone. You need to grow up and learn that your country cannot direct other countries anymore.

Oh, my. Fezy you are absolutely amazing ****. Do you have any idea what the **** are you talking about? Certanly not. Yushenko was the pm., and his rule was a complete ****-up he canceled dozens of very profitable (for Ukranine) deals with several countries to sign new, unprofitable deals with US. People weren't paid for their work, when he was a prime minister. His right hand - Mrs. Timoshenko wanted by interpol for corruption and shady deals.
On the other hand, from economic point of view, the government of Yanukovich IS THE MOST SUCCESSFULL government of Ukraine, since she get the independence in 1991.

	27-12-2004 23:59									#759
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Oh, please... Just keep reading "Washington Post", or whatever 'free' press you choose to read.

At least I'm not reading pravda and the words out of your dictator's mouth.

	28-12-2004 00:01									#760
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Oh, my. Fezy you are absolutely amazing ****. Do you have any idea what the **** are you talking about? Certanly not. Yushenko was the pm., and his rule was a complete ****-up he canceled dozens of very profitable (for Ukranine) deals with several countries to sign new, unprofitable deals with US. People weren't paid for their work, when he was a prime minister. His right hand - Mrs. Timoshenko wanted by interpol for corruption and shady deals. On the other hand, from economic point of view, the government of Yanukovich IS THE MOST SUCCESSFULL government of Ukraine, since she get the independence in 1991.

Ukraine never got real independence from Moscow. Kuchma was a servant to Moscow and everybody knew it. Economic possibility and growth was squandered to please Moscow. Yushchenko represents a new change and you have no evidence to back yourself up. You only lay these stupid accusations that he cancelled these deals.. but with whom? The Russians? Of course... the most unprofitable country in the world. Ukraine has experienced economic growth under Yushchenko in the past, but Yushchenko was for the most part undermined by Kuchma. Kuchma was the one directing the country. And you are a liar about that accusation of corruption. Kuchma and Yanukovich are the old guards of corruption in Ukraine. It is well substantiated. You try to make accusations but you have no evidence at all. Ukraine never got true independence as Yanukovich was nothing more then a lackey for Moscow.

	28-12-2004 00:02									#761
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Except there was no blackmail.

So turning Ukraine in a rogue state, threats to deny visas to the elite, etc. is not a blackmail??

	28-12-2004 00:02									#762
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo You Russians should seriously shut up and self analyze your own country before you go attacking Ukraine and other baltic countries about democracy.

You think Ukraine is one of the Baltic states?

I see you are an expert Fez. You don't need to say more.

	28-12-2004 00:03									#763
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quote: Originally posted by Serb You think Ukraine is one of the Baltic states? I see you are an expert Fez. You don't need to say more.

I never said it was, fool. That is why I said Ukraine and the baltic states. Maybe if you would read my posts for a change you would stop acting like a highly irrational person.

	28-12-2004 00:04									#764
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark BS. The Department of State isnt some nefarious secret organization. Its just a large bureaucracy, like any other US govt Department.

On the surface, yes. But not under the surface!

	28-12-2004 00:05									#765
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond On the surface, yes. But not under the surface!

No it is not. It is a organization full of red tape... underneath as well... that is all it is.

	28-12-2004 00:05									#766
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quote: Originally posted by Serb On the other hand, from economic point of view, the government of Yanukovich IS THE MOST SUCCESSFULL government of Ukraine, since she get the independence in 1991.

Yup, Yanukovich is the man responsible for the increase in global steel prices thats helped out a steel exporting country. Yup, China has NOTHING to do with it. Kinda like how the rise in oil prices shows the economic brilliance of Putin. (oh and Kaddafi, Hugh Chavez, Sukarnoputri, and so many others.)

So will you know concede the economic brilliance of the democratic leaders of Poland, Czecho, Hungary, and the Baltics, all of whom are doing so much better since theyve left youre empire?

	28-12-2004 00:06									#767
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond On the surface, yes. But not under the surface!

Its all a joke. Gotcha.

	28-12-2004 00:07									#768
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Ukraine never got real independence from Moscow. Kuchma was a servant to Moscow and everybody knew it. Economic possibility and growth was squandered to please Moscow. Yushchenko represents a new change and you have no evidence to back yourself up. You only lay these stupid accusations that he cancelled these deals.. but with whom? The Russians? Of course... the most unprofitable country in the world. Ukraine has experienced economic growth under Yushchenko in the past, but Yushchenko was for the most part undermined by Kuchma. Kuchma was the one directing the country. And you are a liar about that accusation of corruption. Kuchma and Yanukovich are the old guards of corruption in Ukraine. It is well substantiated. You try to make accusations but you have no evidence at all. Ukraine never got true independence as Yanukovich was nothing more then a lackey for Moscow.

How can I prove anything to such an ? No matter what I'll say, you'll keep whining- "no, no, no". I know you Fez, you are hopeless.
The fact that Ukraine has never experienced SUCH economic growth as under Yanukovich's government is undeniable. All you have to do is to make a basic research about the subject, before engageing into debate.

	28-12-2004 00:09									#769
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I never said it was, fool. That is why I said Ukraine and the baltic states. Maybe if you would read my posts for a change you would stop acting like a highly irrational person.

You've said - "Ukraine and OTHER Baltic states".

	28-12-2004 00:11									#770
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo No it is not. It is a organization full of red tape... underneath as well... that is all it is.

You have to look deeper, under this 'underneath'.

	28-12-2004 00:11									#771
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quote: Originally posted by Serb How can I prove anything to such an ? No matter what I'll say, you'll keep whining- "no, no, no". I know you Fez, you are hopeless. The fact that Ukraine has never experienced SUCH economic growth as under Yanukovich's government is undeniable. All you have to do is to make a basic research about the subject, before engageing into debate.

Yanukovich was responsible for a world wide rise in steel prices? That's one question that was posed in the past. And what happened under Yanukovich's government? No changes to the Ukrainean economy really. It is plagued with inefficency and corruption. 95% of the wealth in the country is on Yanukovich and Kuchma's personal friends. The now former ruling party of Kuchma had all the wealth. Something Yanukovich was responsible for. You are the hopeless one. Afterall, you Russians manage to elect a dictator like Putin.. wait... Putin somehow won what was it... 75% of the vote in your country...? I wonder why nobody investigated that. Yanukovich and Kuchma allowed corruption to get out of control. You have to do basic research on your own country and Ukraine. You obviously know nothing.

	28-12-2004 00:11									#772
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quote: Originally posted by Serb You've said - "Ukraine and OTHER Baltic states".

Obviously I made a typo you fool, I never meant that Ukraine was a baltic state. Of course it isn't. And looking back, I never said it.

	28-12-2004 00:13									#774
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The great "democratic" work of Russia:



What will be next? Kiev?

	28-12-2004 00:15									#775
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So, my friend Serb, we lost again. When is this going to stop?

	28-12-2004 00:15									#776
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Obviously I made a typo you fool, I never meant that Ukraine was a baltic state. Of course it isn't. And looking back, I never said it.

Yeah, right. A pity excuses of the ignorant fool.
Considering your outstanding geography skills, it wouldn't be a problem for you to get US citizenship.

	28-12-2004 00:15									#777
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Yeah, right. A pity excuses of the ignorant fool. Considering your outstanding geography skills, it wouldn't be a problem for you to get US citizenship.

I could name every country in the region. My geography skills are far more advanced then yours. You are the ignorant stupid fool. You support Yanukovich and that is pure ignorance.

	28-12-2004 00:20									#778
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo The great "democratic" work of Russia: What will be next? Kiev?

The great "democratic" work of USA:

	28-12-2004 00:22									#779
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quote: Originally posted by Serb The great "democratic" work of USA:

Little red X. But if that refers to Iraq you are wrong. Iraq is having elections. Chechnya is ruled by Russia's military

	28-12-2004 00:22									#780
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo The great "democratic" work of Russia: What will be next? Kiev?

The great "democratic" work of USA: