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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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Read the article then we will talk.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
This really makes no sense on its face. Yanukovych is labeled center-right by the Western Press, is in favor of keeping Ukranian troops in Iraq, is backed by the Communist Party, is pro-Moscow and apparently favors the status quo on the president's powers, which resemble the US president's powers.
Yushenko is labeled a pro-West liberal by the press. Serb calls him an ultra-right Nazi. The socialists back him. He will pull Ukranian troops out of Iraq -- which IS consistent with being a socialist. He favors weakening the president's powers to give more power to the legislature.
That's all I know about these folk's politics. It doesn't make much sense. |
1) Yanukovich is not in favor of keeping Ukranian troops in Iraq. He is in favor of withdrawal. And suggest to do it faster than Yushenko suggest. This summer Yanukovich inspected Ukranian troops in Iraq and made statement about soon reduction of Ukranian forces there.
2) Yanukovich doesn't favor the status quo on the president's powers. He is in favor of legislation reform to give more, considerably more power to parliament. Yushenko suggest the opposite- no reform, no more power to parliament.
3) Sure Yushenko is labelead as pro-West liberal by western press. He is your boy and you invested sh!tloads of money in him. So it is not surprising that your press portray him as knight in shining armor. But in fact he is just a Ukranian nazi and who already had the power in times when Lazarenko was prime minister (he is in interpol list of wanted or already caught in US, I don't remember actually). His right hand miss Timoshenko was PM and robbed both Ukraine and Russia, stolen billions of $$$ and now wanted by Russian police. In short, this gang of motherf*ckers already ruled Ukraine and f*cked her up. Thieves.
4) Socialists backed Yushenko it's true. But nazi are national socialist as you may know. He will not pull Ukranian troops out of Iraq (at least not so soon as Yanukovich will) and he DOESN't favor weakening the president's powers to give more power to the legislature. He wants to left everything unchanged, he doesn't want any reform and he doesn't wat to give more power to parliament.
5) He is nazi. Ukranian nazi.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why would I need to read an article about the indepth tactics employed in fighting the battle when the strategic implications (which is what we're discussing) were so obviously minimal? |
If you refuse to educate yourself, fine. Stay blind.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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Oh great! That's how gossips born.
What can I say?
Bullsh!t.
Let me tell you something.
At Sept 5 2004, Yushenko feel sick. Preliminary diagnosis of Ukranian doctors was- intestinal flu. At Sept 10 he was moved to Austrian hospital "Rudolfinerhaus". After examination Austrian doctors made diagnosis- acute pancreatitis. However supporters of Yushenko started to shout out loud that he was poisoned. Another complete examination was carried out. Austrian medics find nothing suspicious. "We didn't find any poisons or any traces of so-called bio-terrorism"- said Michal Cimpfer, the cheif of Austrian hospital Rudolfinerhaus.
Despite this, the Office of Public Presecutor of Ukranie initiated the case about attempt of murder. Special commision of Ukranian parliament started its own independent investigation. After investigation its verdict was- "the deputy wasn't poisoned".
12 experts said that his sickness was caused by herpetic infection. Expert dermatologists made assumption that changes on Yushenko's face were caused by combination of herpetic infection and acnes. The president of commision Vladimir Sivkovich- "this sickness called rosacea. Rosacea and herpetic infection laid down on the same parts of face and caused such changes".
Rosacea or acne rosacea more frequently happens at middle age and affects only face. Skin becomes red, covered by hypostases, ulcers and nodules.
Herpes, despite almost every human being infected by this virus, could be very dangerous. This virus activates when human being is weakened, his imunnity lowered and when he experiences strong stress. There are several types of herpes and the most dangerous of them could change the face significantly. 'Herpes zoster' can make face even worse than Yushenko's face.
So combination of these decises (probably as unfortunate effect of plastic surgery) caused such changes, not poisoning.
So, let's summarize:
Best Ukranian medics, well-respected Austrian medics, experts of the Office of Public presecutor of Ukrine, experts of special commision of Ukranian parliament did their best to find poisons, traces of poisons or traces of bio-terrorism in Yushenko's organism, but FIND NOTHING.
Now a British doctor, who NEVER seen Yushenko and NEVER examinated him, look at his picture and make diagnosis- dioxin poisoning.
Great, just great!!!
He is f*cking genius this doctor.
Who need all those expensive and boring analysis, blood probes, examiantion and other stuff, when you have a picture and can make a BS statement everyone will buy?
As for dioxin, as Dr. Marcello Lotti from Univercity of Padua (sp?) said- "I would be very surpirsed if somebody tell me that dioxines were used as poison. Dioxine isn't highly toxic and to cause acnes on face, victim should take very big amount of "poisoned food"- kilograms of poisoned food within several days. Besides, it's at least tactless to make diagnosis using a photo only, especially toxical diagnosis, which reqires a lot of laboratory analysis".
Hello, are you there? Still think that he was poisoned?
It's a secret, but I'll tell you anyway. KGB produced world's best assasins and they still do. If they really wanted him dead, he would be dead already. They could make it without any poison. And even in case if they choosed to poison him, they would have used effective poison which would have killed him with 100% guaranty.
So this whole story about poisoning is no more than bullsh!t, the fairytale of Yushenko, another lie of this pity, ugly liar.
 him.
Last edited by Serb on 25-11-2004 at 19:30
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Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
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A much more reasonable article:
quote:
Quentin Peel: Faultline between Russia and west
By Quentin Peel
Poor Ukraine. For centuries this great flat fertile plain has been the battleground for other people's empires - Russian, Polish, Lithuanian, German, you name it. Then, 13 years ago, the implosion of the Soviet Union thrust nationhood upon it - a nationhood dreamt of but never seriously expected. And now the territory seems destined to become once again a zone of confrontation between external forces, the new faultline between Russia and the west.
As the cheated voters of Ukraine demonstrate in their tens of thousands on the streets of Kiev, demanding a recount to give victory to Viktor Yushchenko, the opposition candidate for president, the outside world is taking sides.
Europe and America say the Russians started it, blatantly interfering in the Ukrainian election campaign to support Viktor Yanukovich, the incumbent prime minister, as the pro-Russian choice. Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, came twice to ensure that the message got through.
Of course, ever since the Soviet Union disintegrated, Russians of all political persuasions have found it hard to accept that Ukraine should break away from the Motherland. Most Russians regard Ukrainian independence as an aberration, to be corrected in the fullness of time. That a Moscow government should make clear who is the preferred presidential candidate in Kiev is taken for granted.
In some ways, the US and the European Union have been inviting a Russian backlash. They have made no secret of their preference for the "pro-western" Mr Yushchenko. This week Mr Putin gave his reply. In deeds, if not in words, he seems to be saying: "We won't let him win."
The revival of cold war-style confrontation presents Ukrainians with a desperate dilemma. They cannot afford to choose between east and west, and yet they are being forced to do so, against their better inclinations.
For most Ukrainians, these elections were not about being pro- or anti-Russian. The elections were primarily about ousting a corrupt clique from power in Kiev. It just happened that the clique came from the Russian-speaking east of the country.
There can be no doubt that there was ballot-stuffing and fraud on voting day. In the largely Russian-speaking Donetsk region of 5m people, 97 per cent are supposed to have voted, overwhelmingly for Mr Yanukovich. And in the months before the election, all the resources of the government, and of the state-owned television, were devoted to his cause.
The country is divided between the nationalist west, around Lviv, and the largely Russian-speaking east around Kharkov and the coal-mining Donbass region. Yet the extent of that division can be exaggerated. And it probably has been, precisely because of the heavy-handed Russian intervention.
Mr Yushchenko's supporters were not voting for instant membership of the Nato alliance or the EU. Indeed, Mr Yushchenko had declared he would withdraw Ukrainian troops from Iraq, not a gesture that Washington would welcome. But because he represents a more liberal, pro-market attitude, in contrast to the statist style of the old Soviet factory managers surrounding President Leonid Kuchma and Mr Yanukovich, there was a pro-western subtext to his campaign.
Ukrainian ambassadors have been summoned in every EU state to hear protests about the ballot-rigging. Yet some protests may be lukewarm. A victory for Mr Yanukovich would probably be easier for EU states to live with than one for Mr Yushchenko. The big states do not want to infuriate Mr Putin unnecessarily.
A liberal, west-leaning government in Kiev would expect some substantial financial support from the EU to help rebuild its institutions and economy. It would also look for a clear prospect of EU membership. But Günter Verheugen, former European commissioner for enlargement, was always fond of saying that Ukraine should have a "European perspective, but not a membership perspective", at least for 20 years.
The harsh reality for Ukrainians is that they are largely on their own. What they need is time and space to put their own house in order. The best thing Europe and America can do is persuade Mr Putin to back off and let them get on with it. He may take a lot of persuading. |
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Tripledoc
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Paraphrasing the Fourth International.
If the purpose of the opposition is to expel a corrupt regime, how come they are backing a candidate who was the head of the central bank from 1991 to 2000, and minister from 2000-2001 under Kuchma, the president?
The average montly wage of an Ukrainian is now 35 euros.
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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I'm a little surprised that people are challenging Serb's assertion that the USSR kicked Japan's arse after the prior Russo-Japanese War (1904-05). The USSR decisively defeated the Japanese in not one but two large scale land campaigns.
The first was in 1939
Which had profound strategic implications in that it was almost certainly the reason the USSR never had to contend with a two front war in WWII.
The second time would be the already mentioned blitzkreig in the final days of ww2. However even if we dismiss the second cmapaign as too late in WW2 to affect that wars outcome it still cannot change the simple assertion that the USSR soundly defeated the Japanese in that campaign. A successful campaign against enormous military force is all the more successful for being quickly won and the fact that the campaign had no strategic implications in the wider conflict tells us nothing about how one sided such a campaign can be. A 3 day defeat of 900,000 fanatical modern disciplined troops is still a hell of a arse whooping.
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25-11-2004 17:17
Alexander's Horse in such cases says- "you are ignorant as pig about Soviet role in WW2".
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