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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Of course, if the fraud took place, like everyone is saying. If it didn't, then it's a shame. If it did take place, shame on you  . |
Nope. 1. Kiev is the historical mother city of Russian civilization. 2. Ukrainian is a made up identity, "ukraine" just means "borderland", "Ukrainian" is a dialect of Russian. (oh and it was made up Germans and Poles to weaken Russia) 3. In any case, plenty of self identifying Russians live in Ukraine, and its about time that ethnic Russians stop being dragged away from Russia, and for them to enter "europe" would be particularly outrageous. 4. Ukraine is the necessary piece to restore Russia to the great power status it was deprived of by fascists, imperialists, and traitors.
Ergo, whatever Russia does to retain dominance in the Ukraine is justified. And nothing that is done to take Ukraine away from that dominance can possibly be justified.
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The Vagabond
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of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Who visited Ukraine during the election? Who endorsed a candidate? Its pretty obvious WHO has been pressuring Ukraine - and WHO is so angry that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have taken to the streets in defiance of that pressure.
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Hell, visited or not, this does not change the fact that every western goverment, every organization, every media outlet cry that the election was a fraud. With modern means of communication, everyone in Ukraine knows this, you don't need to visit.
And who is in the streets are mainly the residents of Kiev, where Yushchenko got 80%, while Yanukovich only 17%. Of course, they must be disappointed, but they must respect the choice of their countrymen outside of Kiev.
quote:
But the vast conspiracy that includes everyone from Foxnews to the Guardian marches on. Right. |
I'd prefer to call it 'geopolitics', not 'conspiracy'.
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Gangerolf
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huuhh
May 2001
time: 06:18
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quote:
"The figures and reports about the unjustified increase in the use of absentee voter certificates and the even higher increase of mobile voting, cast a shadow over the genuineness of the results," said Mr. Lucio Malan, Head of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly delegation. "Moreover the turnout in some territorial election commissions in Donetsk, exceeding 98.5 per cent, and increasing by 21 per cent after the first round, are unrealistic and highly suspicious." |
quote:
Observers noted more serious violations, including some isolated incidents of violence, and a pattern of intimidation, including directed towards observers, polling commission members and individual voters. In a significant number of polling stations, commission members had been dismissed. In some instances, unauthorized persons were interfering in or directing the process, or otherwise attempting to influence voters. |
http://www.osce.org/news/show_news.php?id=4547
Hmmm no we couldn't possibly know whether there was fraud.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Vagabond
I'd prefer to call it 'geopolitics', not 'conspiracy'. |
an agreement to lie is generally called a conspiracy, whatever the motivation.
But lets address geopolitics. The states and media outlets involved represent a broad range of views on geopolitics, from those in UK and elsewhere who want the EU to expand, to those in France who think the EU is too big as it is, to folks in the US who see the EU as a threat. Its hard to see how they could all agree who to favor on geopolitical grounds. The beleif that "holding down Russia" trumps all their other disagreements and views, seems, how can I say this politely, like a distorted POV, one that overemphasizes the importance of Russia in the affairs of the West, and that overemphasizes the enmity toward Russia. There is a word for this inclination, but Id like to avoid it.
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The Vagabond
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of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
But lets address geopolitics. The states and media outlets involved represent a broad range of views on geopolitics, from those in UK and elsewhere who want the EU to expand, to those in France who think the EU is too big as it is, to folks in the US who see the EU as a threat. Its hard to see how they could all agree who to favor on geopolitical grounds. The beleif that "holding down Russia" trumps all their other disagreements and views, seems, how can I say this politely, like a distorted POV, one that overemphasizes the importance of Russia in the affairs of the West, and that overemphasizes the enmity toward Russia. There is a word for this inclination, but Id like to avoid it. |
The West is obsessed with keeping Ukraine out of Russia-led alliances. This is a fact. This is considered extremely important. Whatever contradictions may recently have surfaced between western countries, there is a solid consensus in the West on this particular issue.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
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Vagabond,
we are wasting our time here. They may whine as long as they wish. It will not change the outcome. The Electoral commision officially declared Yanukovich as the victor of election. The game is over. They are losers. Whining loosers.
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Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
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25-11-2004 00:55
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No, not him. Ukraine is our friend, you know 
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