03-12-2004 09:24									#271
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, but their community is much more active, which is generally how you judge between forums and their relative success.

	03-12-2004 09:26									#272
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Trip We can compare them 24 hours later, I think that CFC will still hold a fairly large lead.

Yeah, probably. After seeing huge amount of the Civ3 list ignored, and then Firaxis blaming most of the problems on listing to the listers, maybe everyone just got a bit pissed off with the whole thing? Anyway, as I said: just another demonstration that the entire community turns over at every installment in the series. Civ is getting dull.

	03-12-2004 09:30									#273
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What *I* want to know is ...

Why don't we know yet who bought the franchise?

	03-12-2004 12:19									#274
	Support Apolyton

I still buy civ, and I will buy the next one (it is no longer a super game for me, but it is still a good one).

Jon Miller

	03-12-2004 12:51									#275
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: If I see one spearman defeat a tank, I will burn Firaxis studios to the ground.

quote: If they go 3D just for the sake of being 3D, I will destroy them.

If I see any more dumbification of my favourite game, I will have my vengeance.




------------


Why don't developers get warm around the heart from all the warmth and goodwill emitted in threads like these?

	03-12-2004 14:29									#276
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Poly still has no news-item over the screnshots or the news of cIV we can find in this thread / the civ4 forum thread.

poly is no civ-community anymore

	03-12-2004 15:21									#277
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, it's full of religion freaks nowadays

	03-12-2004 16:17									#278
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Trip I started identical threads at CFC and Apolyton at the same time about the Civ 4 screenshots, and after 3 hours, the Apolyton thread has around 100 views, while the CFC thread has around 700.

I don't suppose that had anything to do with the fact that on CFC the news was on the front page soon after it was posted? Had you submitted a news report to us as well, Dan might have been able to pick it up and post a news item timely. Now it had to wait until I got up this morning and checked the Civ4 forum. And since I actually have a life and went out last night, that was pretty late.

When you Google for "Civ4", Apolyton has the first 2 hits, CFC is somewhere halfway down page 3. Who's more successful now?

	03-12-2004 17:02									#279
	Tired of ads?

If Civ4 is a buggy mess upon release just like Civ3 was, I will save my money. Firaxis may have a record to write good games (tho I see it seriously tainted), but their record of leaving their customers alone in the rain with a bugfest game is almost as bad as Activisions. I will not be fooled again with foul promises like buy the next 2 XPs and have a perfect game. Won't work anymore. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

	03-12-2004 19:01									#280
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: shame on you. Fool me twice...

Oi, don't go 'round steeling Texan sayings, you hear!!


Oh wait, you didn't...

	03-12-2004 19:07									#281
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Locotus: thanks for making it a newsitem.
Where can I find that newsreport link next time?

	03-12-2004 20:38									#282
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Locutus I don't suppose that had anything to do with the fact that on CFC the news was on the front page soon after it was posted? Had you submitted a news report to us as well, Dan might have been able to pick it up and post a news item timely. Now it had to wait until I got up this morning and checked the Civ4 forum. And since I actually have a life and went out last night, that was pretty late.

Hey, it's not my fault. If anything, CFC has a smaller staff.

quote: When you Google for "Civ4", Apolyton has the first 2 hits, CFC is somewhere halfway down page 3. Who's more successful now?

Sorry, but Google is not the judge of that.

CFC thread is over 3500 views now, almost 13x the Apolyton thread...

	03-12-2004 20:43									#283
	Increase the size of your Attachments

That's just because you keep refreshing it.

	03-12-2004 21:25									#284
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

After doing some research...

quote: Originally posted by Locutus When you Google for "Civ4", Apolyton has the first 2 hits, CFC is somewhere halfway down page 3. Who's more successful now?

And if you google a proper name, such as "Civilization IV" or "Civ 4" or "Civ IV" - CFC comes up very near the top and Apolyton is no where to be seen.

	03-12-2004 21:38									#285
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Locotus: thanks for making it a newsitem. Where can I find that newsreport link next time?

You have 3 options:

1) At the end of every news item the name of the author is listed as a link. Click on that link and you're taking to the form.

2) Almost every page on this site has a link "Contact us" somewhere (on this page it's just below the Quick Reply form). That also takes you to that same form.

3) If the news item is about/related to a specific forum thread: at the top of every thread, just below the navigation bar (e.g. "Apolyton CS Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Atari Sells Civilization Franchise!"), there are a number of links. One of them is "Report this to Apolyton news!". This also takes you to the form and automatically fills in the URL of the thread in the field 'Related URL'.

quote: Originally posted by Trip Hey, it's not my fault. If anything, CFC has a smaller staff.

I think you'd be surprised by that. On Apolyton, the responsibility for the news lies almost exclusively with DanQ, who is really far too busy with RL to be able to do the job adequately. We keep hiring news editors but they keep resigning again (or just fade away after a while). And when they do do their job, they report maybe one or two items per fortnight, at most. I try to help out where I can but I have a busy RL as well.

Of course, Apolyton is also a much larger site than CFC, we have like 16 different sections, as opposed to only 3 or 4 for CFC.

In the end we report the same stuff as CFC (plus a whole lot more), but if people don't help us out by actively reporting news to us, it will just take us a little longer.

quote: Sorry, but Google is not the judge of that.

Google sorts by how often pages are linked to, which I find a far more reliable measurement than raw hits. Many hits but few links only means that the stuff that is there is not really worth linking to and therefore mostly noise. Plus, because Google is so popular a high ranking on Google generates lots of visitors, which is going to make a difference once the release for Civ4 gets closer.

quote: CFC thread is over 3500 views now, almost 13x the Apolyton thread...

Well, with that 10 hour advantage or so that CFC had the Apolyton thread is obviously not gonna be able to catch up anymore. It also doesn't help that you posted about it in this thread as well. Lots of people probably won't find it necessary to check out two or three threads on the same topic (here, in the Civ4 forum or on CFC).

Plus, most reactions on CFC are along the lines of 'whao, that looks weird', while on Apolyton there's actual meaningful discussion going on about the new info on features and stuff. I prefer my threads rich in texture and low on fluff, so for me Apolyton still rules all

	03-12-2004 21:49									#286
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Trip And if you google a proper name, such as "Civilization IV" or "Civ 4" or "Civ IV" - CFC comes up very near the top and Apolyton is no where to be seen.

Uhm, no. Only for "Civilization 4" is Apolyton nowhere to be seen, because we don't use that term on this site. For "Civ4", "Civ 4", "Civ IV" and "Civilization IV" we always rank on the first page (once at the top of the 2nd page), where CFC is usually on page 3 or lower...

Edit: hmm, Google does some very arbitrary things depending how if/where you use quote signs. Type 'Civilization IV' and CFC is at the top and Apolyton nowhere to be found, type '"Civilization IV"' and it's just the other way around. Similar things for other variants. Very odd...

	03-12-2004 21:59									#287
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It seems to me that perhaps Poly has an older generation of civvers, and CFC has a younger generation. And as part of the older generation, many have moved on to having real lives. Or they have become jaded or disinterested in the civ franchise.

we're still the one's that started it all. Surely that counts for something, right?

	03-12-2004 22:09									#288
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Locutus I think you'd be surprised by that. On Apolyton, the responsibility for the news lies almost exclusively with DanQ, who is really far too busy with RL to be able to do the job adequately. We keep hiring news editors but they keep resigning again (or just fade away after a while). And when they do do their job, they report maybe one or two items per fortnight, at most. I try to help out where I can but I have a busy RL as well. Of course, Apolyton is also a much larger site than CFC, we have like 16 different sections, as opposed to only 3 or 4 for CFC. In the end we report the same stuff as CFC (plus a whole lot more), but if people don't help us out by actively reporting news to us, it will just take us a little longer.

All credit to Dan in the world for doing the job of 3, but that doesn't make Apolyton any more Civ 3/4 friendly.

Reporting or not, the Civ 4 forum has much more participation at CFC than Apolyton. Can't blame that on news editors.

quote: Google sorts by how often pages are linked to, which I find a far more reliable measurement than raw hits. Many hits but few links only means that the stuff that is there is not really worth linking to and therefore mostly noise. Plus, because Google is so popular a high ranking on Google generates lots of visitors, which is going to make a difference once the release for Civ4 gets closer.

Depends on how many hits per page you have Google set up for, but on default, CFC is on the first page in everything but "Civ4" while Apolyton is not even on the 3rd page except in one case ("Civ 4").

quote: Well, with that 10 hour advantage or so that CFC had the Apolyton thread is obviously not gonna be able to catch up anymore. It also doesn't help that you posted about it in this thread as well. Lots of people probably won't find it necessary to check out two or three threads on the same topic (here, in the Civ4 forum or on CFC).

I posted them at the same time, so I don't see how you can call it a 10-hour advantage...

I only posted about it in this thread because very few people even visit the Civ 4 forum... another blow at Apolyton...

quote: Plus, most reactions on CFC are along the lines of 'whao, that looks weird', while on Apolyton there's actual meaningful discussion going on about the new info on features and stuff. I prefer my threads rich in texture and low on fluff, so for me Apolyton still rules all

Yeah, mostly because that thread has attracted basically everyone from CFC. If you'll look at the rest of the CFC Civ 4 forum it's far more active and yes, has far more "meaningful discussion" than here (no offense to those people who do contribute here ).

	03-12-2004 22:16									#289
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Search for:

"Civ 4":
CFC is hit 2, Apolyton is 23

"Civilization 4":
CFC is hit 2, Apolyton is above 100 (unknown)

"Civ IV":
CFC is hits 3 and 4, Apolyton is 31 and 32

"Civilization IV":
CFC is hits 4 and 12, Apolyton is 71

"Civ4":
Apolyton is 1 and 2, CFC is 15 and 16

I think that's pretty conclusive.

	03-12-2004 23:28									#290
	Put an end to popups!

Mark and Dan could hire one of those companies that rewrite your key words and adjust internal links to make the sites placement on search engines go up. I doubt they'd spend the money but if poly is a business to them then they ought to look into as it would likely raise their ad revenue.

	04-12-2004 00:04									#291
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's very selective choice of keywords, Trip. Some of them even incorrect.

Default Google settings:

Civ 4
Apolyton is 5. CFC not among the first 50.

Civ4
Apolyton is 1, 2. CFC is 37.

"Civ 4"
Apolyton is 6. CFC not among the first 50.

"Civ4"
Apolyton is 1, 2. CFC is 37.

Civ IV
Apolyton is not among the first 50. CFC is 4 and 16.

CivIV
Apolyton 32. CFC not among the first 50.

"Civ IV"
Apolyton is 9, 10. CFC not among the first 50 (unless you count some some vague PtW word document on 17)

"CivIV"
Apolyton 32. CFC not among the first 50.

Civilization IV
Apolyton reference at 32 (but no direct link). CFC is at 42 (unless you count the random Civ2 news item at 11).

CivilizationIV
Neither among the first 50.

"Civilization IV"
Apolyton is 7, CFC not among the first 50.

"CivilizationIV"
Neither among the first 50.

Civilization 4
Neither among the first 50.

"Civilization 4"
Apolyton not among the first 50. CFC at 32.

Civilization4
Apolyton is 7 and 19. CFC not among the first 50.

"Civilization4"
Apolyton is 7 and 19. CFC not among the first 50.

Paints a very different picture.

	04-12-2004 00:13									#292
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, I have no idea what you're doing, because when I do a search for Civ 4 (no quotes) CFC is listed as number 4. Apolyton is definitely not #5, and isn't even listed in the top few pages.

I don't even know how you would define an "incorrect keyword."

Attachment: search.jpg
This has been downloaded 72 time(s).

	04-12-2004 00:27									#293
	Inflate your Upload Space

Apparently there are different versions of Google or something, I know I use all default settings for Google myself. I could post screenshots of every keyword I typed in but I'm sure you'll believe me, just as I'll believe that you're not lying about your results (though I'm unclear about if/how you used quotes).

We seem to use the same browser, OS and toolbar, so maybe it location related? US-based searches return US urls first and non-US based searches return non-US urls first? That's the one downside of Google: they refuse to release any info on their search/ranking methods...

With incorrect I meant I got different results than you, but I think that's obvious now.

	04-12-2004 00:32									#294
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I used quotes in all of my earlier searches, but not in that screenshot (as you can see in the search bar).

In any case, looks like there's no definitive way to conclude this.

Guess I'll just have to mention that the CFC thread is over 6000 views now.

	04-12-2004 00:35									#295
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Umm, so, yeah, any news on who bought the rights?

I'm guessing no, given the current "debate."

-Arrian

	04-12-2004 00:39									#296
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

No.

	04-12-2004 01:58									#297
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Strange. Everyone gets different results!!

Attachment: image1.png
This has been downloaded 59 time(s).

	04-12-2004 02:01									#298
	Increase Your PM Length

That looks like the results Locutus got (with Apolyton 5th).

Also, I notice you went to that defunct Civ 4 forum as well.

	04-12-2004 02:10									#299
	Remove this text

It's crap.

	04-12-2004 02:34									#300
	Increase the size of your Attachments

civ4!!