02-12-2004 03:20									#241
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Alex, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech or having cojones to tell developers what they deserve. Hell, we all post under nicknames -- internet is full of cojones

Secondly, I don't know what you do, but I doubt you would be very eager to log into places where you get lots of criticism of your work by anonymouses who compete how best to denigerate it.

Thirdly, none of the positions at Firaxis has "browsing Apolyton" as a job requirement. They will come here only if they feel comfortable.

I wont be doing the ass kissing personally, but there are always guys willing to do that, and I'm just saying, give them some space

	02-12-2004 03:35									#242
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Alex, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech or having cojones to tell developers what they deserve. Hell, we all post under nicknames -- internet is full of cojones

I didn't say this, I merely pointed out that there is space for everyone, even for those who are feeling ripped off by the developers, no matter how lame their arguments might be.

quote: Secondly, I don't know what you do, but I doubt you would be very eager to log into places where you get lots of criticism of your work by anonymouses who compete how best to denigerate it.

That's true, but everyone who submits the result of his efforts to the public appreciation knows that this is a possibility.

quote: Thirdly, none of the positions at Firaxis has "browsing Apolyton" as a job requirement. They will come here only if they feel comfortable.

They are not required to browse these forums, but this is what I would do if I were developing any civ game. Oh, but I'm not them.

quote: I wont be doing the ass kissing personally, but there are always guys willing to do that, and I'm just saying, give them some space

I have to agree with you here.

	02-12-2004 04:50									#243
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Alex, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech or having cojones to tell developers what they deserve. Hell, we all post under nicknames -- internet is full of cojones Secondly, I don't know what you do, but I doubt you would be very eager to log into places where you get lots of criticism of your work by anonymouses who compete how best to denigerate it. Thirdly, none of the positions at Firaxis has "browsing Apolyton" as a job requirement. They will come here only if they feel comfortable. I wont be doing the ass kissing personally, but there are always guys willing to do that, and I'm just saying, give them some space

I post under myself.

Jon Miller

	02-12-2004 05:03									#244
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I do it on some other forums, and it ain't easy knowing that someone might put your name in google 2 or 20 years from now and read what you posted on a bad day - without knowing the context.

Ever tried to be politically correct with a fourth dimension?

	02-12-2004 05:35									#245
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Civ3 has undergone considerable improvement since it came out. If you still have your Civ3 copy, you should look for some cheap copy of Conquests somewhere. Almost all features that make a good Civ-game are here, and the strategies are much more interesting than in Civ2 (the IA puts an actual challenge to unexperienced players). I am one of those people who see Civ3 as a badly rushed product when it first came out, but thanks to excellent support, the game now has almost everything I expect from a Civ game

I played Civ 2 for years, but I've grown to love Civ 3 more than I ever loved Civ 2. Civ 3 with Conquests expansion is IMO the best version of Civ thus far. I simply can't go back to Civ 2.

	02-12-2004 05:42									#246
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I still consider civ2 a little better than civ3. But I can't go back to civ2 for a few reasons.

First is the lack of borders. And then the graphics. And then having armies supported by shields of each city- empire army support (using taxes) is better. And then diplomats and spies (I never cared for using them). And overpowered howitzers.

civ3 definately has it's flaws though. I wish the combat results were a little more predictable. And the modern age still doesn't feel right to me. And high corruption, and pollution that kicks your workers off the tiles they are working

	02-12-2004 05:55									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I still consider civ2 a little better than civ3. But I can't go back to civ2 for a few reasons. First is the lack of borders. And then the graphics. And then having armies supported by shields of each city- empire army support (using taxes) is better.

These are three of the main reasons that I can't go back...

quote: civ3 definately has it's flaws though. I wish the combat results were a little more predictable. And the modern age still doesn't feel right to me. And high corruption, and pollution that kicks your workers off the tiles they are working

I've played many games of Civ 3, and I've never really had a problem with unpredictable battles. Every once in a while I'd get a bizarre, unrealistic result, but most battles would end as they should.

I'm not sure what you mean by the modern agre feeling a little off... I think that its improved considerably since Conquests. I've had incredibly fun modern age wars. Automating the workers to clear pollution is the way around that.

My 2 main problems with Civ 3 that still remain after Conquests are the corruption and the unusal cooperation between the AI. Corruption takes away most of the fun of building a large empire; there needs to be a more effective way to combat it. The most frustrating thing about Civ 3 is the cooperation between the AI civs. They're too willing to trade with each other, especially techs. It often feels like your playing against one giant civ rather than interacting with a number of intercompeting civs.

	02-12-2004 06:00									#248
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I actually like reasonable amount of unpredictability in my games.

Whenever I fire up an epic game 95% of the time I will leave all game settings (climate, water, age, etc) on random. And for SMAC/X I actually prefer Blind Research.

In fact I wish I could have blind research for Civ games. It doesn't make sense that my civ would know that i'd need this and that to get dat.

	02-12-2004 06:01									#249
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Wycoff The most frustrating thing about Civ 3 is the cooperation between the AI civs. They're too willing to trade with each other, especially techs. It often feels like your playing against one giant civ rather than interacting with a number of intercompeting civs.

I can understand this yet in a way it's a good thing since it encourage the player to be more engaging with AIs instead of simply ignoring them like I would often do in Civ2.

	02-12-2004 06:01									#250
	Full PM-box? Change here!

most of my problems with the modern age are mainly to do with pollution, so I guess you can include that under pollution. Not that I think pollution should go away. There should be some balance for high production cities. And I don't think pollution should occur during the industrial age, another flaw of the game. It takes a while to build that stuff up to harmful levels.

	02-12-2004 06:04									#251
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I still consider civ2 a little better than civ3. But I can't go back to civ2 for a few reasons. First is the lack of borders. And then the graphics. And then having armies supported by shields of each city- empire army support (using taxes) is better. And then diplomats and spies (I never cared for using them). And overpowered howitzers.

Ok, the border problem can't be fixed right now, but the graphics, diplomats, spies, and howitzers can all be changed to your liking.

	02-12-2004 06:07									#252
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Ok, the border problem can't be fixed right now, but the graphics, diplomats, spies, and howitzers can all be changed to your liking.

graphics will never look as good as civ3's. If so, post a screen shot.

	02-12-2004 06:16									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident graphics will never look as good as civ3's. If so, post a screen shot.

Well, are you hooked on the 3D units or could you live with isometric units?

	02-12-2004 06:23									#254
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Well, are you hooked on the 3D units or could you live with isometric units?

the animations are nice, but aren't a necessity.

I have seen some high res graphics mods, but I didn't like them. I want the resolution of the terrain to look crisp. Is there anything that does that?

	02-12-2004 06:32									#255
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dissident the animations are nice, but aren't a necessity. I have seen some high res graphics mods, but I didn't like them. I want the resolution of the terrain to look crisp. Is there anything that does that?

My personal opinion on Hi-Res is that they're to blurry, are not uniform, and generally look poor. Try looking at Fairline's graphics and some of the newer Civ2 scenario files out there, like my Gold Gulch scenario. All the graphics are hand made and very representational.

	02-12-2004 06:34									#256
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Or check out Catfish's website that's listed in his profile. He's pulled off some real winners with unit shading.

Also, take a look at the updated Red Front for ToT thread in the SL Civ2 forums.

	02-12-2004 07:23									#257
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Well, i think this proves soren's point about the concentric circle theory, and Civ3 designers being ... overly optimistic ... about hitting the civ2 circle AND the civ1 circle ... Tuttle, you and your crew are in the part of the civ2 circle not inside the civ3 circle pretty clearly. Hardcore gamers that liked certain aspects of civ2 and were willing to put up with certain problems with it because you didn't like certain changes made to get civ3 ... but yet civ3 had (has) a much wider audience overall than civ2 did, because of those changes. You lose some people -- who are generally still quite happy to play the older game -- but overall you move on to get the larger group. Perhaps sad - not necessarily - but how the capitalist gaming world works.

(If you aren't familiar, go read his .ppt presentation on "Game Franchises" ... ask Trip for the link, it's in one of his threads somewhere.)

	02-12-2004 07:27									#258
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If anyone is interested, I just posted my idea for civil war and regional separatism in Civ 4. The thread is in the Civ 4 forum.

Last edited by Wycoff on 03-12-2004 at 06:54

	03-12-2004 06:24									#259
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Just some Civ IV news for those who don't stop by the Civ IV forum...

First few screenshots for Civ IV have been released, scanned, and posted. You can check them out in the thread I just posted:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=126195

	03-12-2004 06:42									#260
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from the article:

* Development is being headed by creator Sid Meier himself.
* Civ IV has been written entirely from scratch.
* The 3D engine will allow you to zoom smoothly from a global view all the way down to a single city.
* Individual units will gain experience and acquire new upgrades such as bonuses against specific enemy types and the ability to use enemy roads.
* No more spearmen defeating tanks.
* Besides incorporating new technologies, the tech tree has been changed to allow radically different research paths to the same high-level technologies. Now you won’t have to follow a strict research path to be competitive later in the game – a design that opens up a whole new world of possibilities.
* Civilization IV has been designed to fully support the mod community. The game is written using flexible XML data files and the Python scripting language so that modders will have no trouble at all creating their own personalized worlds, units, technologies, and historical events. Advanced modders will even be able to control the AI.
* Civ4 has been designed from the outset to include the multiplayer mode. You will be able to team up in co-op mode against the AI or other teams of players, and a random-map generator ensures an equal start.

	03-12-2004 06:44									#261
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sounds good

Jon Miller

	03-12-2004 07:01									#262
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If I see one spearman defeat a tank, I will burn Firaxis studios to the ground.

	03-12-2004 07:09									#263
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by alva * The 3D engine will allow you to zoom smoothly from a global view all the way down to a single city.

If they go 3D just for the sake of being 3D, I will destroy them.

	03-12-2004 07:24									#264
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Nothing wrong with GOOD use of 3D.

--

quote: If I see one spearman defeat a tank, I will burn Firaxis studios to the ground.

Better keep your lighter close then, ey.

	03-12-2004 09:09									#265
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For those of you who previously said that Firaxis should visit Apolyton more...

I started identical threads at CFC and Apolyton at the same time about the Civ 4 screenshots, and after 3 hours, the Apolyton thread has around 100 views, while the CFC thread has around 700.

I think that says a lot in itself.

	03-12-2004 09:13									#266
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Trip For those of you who previously said that Firaxis should visit Apolyton more... I started identical threads at CFC and Apolyton at the same time about the Civ 4 screenshots, and after 3 hours, the Apolyton thread has around 100 views, while the CFC thread has around 700. I think that says a lot in itself.

Why isn't there a Civ 4 forum on CFC? I went there to post something, only to discover that there was no forum. Why is there no forum?

	03-12-2004 09:14									#267
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

There is, it's a subforum of the Civ 3 forum... and it still gets far more activity than the Apolyton Civ 4 forum.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=119

	03-12-2004 09:18									#268
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

CFC had 'poly beat on Civ3 right from the start. Mostly because CFC had better actual Civ3 site content at first, and then it drew in more people to the forums.

Also, maybe more americans on CFC, more euros on ACS?

	03-12-2004 09:20									#269
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We can compare them 24 hours later, I think that CFC will still hold a fairly large lead.

	03-12-2004 09:21									#270
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Our Civ4 list project appears to be better organized than theirs.