14-02-2005 08:39									#271
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Hey Curt, if you're up to it, I was wondering if you would be in the mood for something different. Something that doesn't have to do with units...

	14-02-2005 09:01									#272
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Never mind, the whole maps been filled in with farms. Now I get to work on the trade routes.

These will carryover to ToT when I do the conversion, right?

	14-02-2005 15:02									#273
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If you need anything, feel free to ask!

	14-02-2005 21:27									#274
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling If you need anything, feel free to ask!

Well, are up to drawing a storyboard?

	15-02-2005 10:25									#275
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You could rely mostly on batch files to upgrade german units, while you use a (german-only) tech tree to determine where they get most reinforcements.

So, say the germans can chose between 3 techs. One triggers most reinforceents to the West Coast, another in the center, and another in the East coast. the three paths would be mostly independant, so the AI might research West 1, West 2, East 1, West 3, Center 1, 2 and 3, or maybe in another order... you could also add west 1 as a prequisite to center 3 to make sure that the front does not get very unbalanced. This, combined with the overall advancing tech level, would mean that few games will be similar to each other...

the only problem (?) would be that Military Intelligence (F3) would be able to determine where the Germans are building up troops, but I see it more of a problem from a player getting too much of a warning point of view than realism...

also, it would mean that capturing key areas like the oilfields in texas would increase German trade, and thus fuel the offensive by providing for faster reinforcements..

	15-02-2005 12:54									#276
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Very interesting, N35t0r!

	15-02-2005 19:49									#277
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r You could rely mostly on batch files to upgrade german units, while you use a (german-only) tech tree to determine where they get most reinforcements. So, say the germans can chose between 3 techs. One triggers most reinforceents to the West Coast, another in the center, and another in the East coast. the three paths would be mostly independant, so the AI might research West 1, West 2, East 1, West 3, Center 1, 2 and 3, or maybe in another order... you could also add west 1 as a prequisite to center 3 to make sure that the front does not get very unbalanced. This, combined with the overall advancing tech level, would mean that few games will be similar to each other... the only problem (?) would be that Military Intelligence (F3) would be able to determine where the Germans are building up troops, but I see it more of a problem from a player getting too much of a warning point of view than realism... also, it would mean that capturing key areas like the oilfields in texas would increase German trade, and thus fuel the offensive by providing for faster reinforcements..

Interesting. I think that this could add some randomness to the game... I think maybe I could use this as an intermitent event, or just an initial event, where the Germans are given a root tech on turn 1, and the AI is allowed to pick the branch tech to research. The initial event file would have three different areas for unit creation based on the choice of the branch tech discovered.

The techs that lead to unit pop up creation can be coded so that the player won't be able to know where the attack is coming from.

I don't think I quite know what you mean by upgrading the units though. Do you mean making advanced units available by just switching out the rules.txt?

	15-02-2005 21:28									#278
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And remember, it is very easy to restrict units to a certain CIV!

	16-02-2005 01:56									#279
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I don't think I quite know what you mean by upgrading the units though. Do you mean making advanced units available by just switching out the rules.txt?

Exactly, you just gradually switch the rules.txt and units.gif files to go upgrading the units, (just like the 2194 days of war Gigamap version by Pap). You could always have some units that require some tech which is given by events (so there won't be an auto-upgrade to those units) or even have the tech be eligible for research for the germans, reflecting that they'd need to revert significant resources (they'd be researching a new unit rather than reinforcements), which could reflect that they're improving airbases, or logistics / whatever to allow the new unit to operate. For example, a tech called 'XXX Bomber Deployment' which allows a new bomber (xxx) to be built.

In any case, they would still be getting token reinforcements all throughout the line, only the techs would dictate when and where the large contingents of reinforcements are placed.


I don't think that there would be much problem in letting the player know where the Germans are building up next, but a house rule requiring the player to get a recon unit (diplomat abilities) to a major Axis-controlled city before checking the diplomacy screen. (Is there a way to remove embassies every turn?)

	16-02-2005 01:57									#280
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling And remember, it is very easy to restrict units to a certain CIV!

And techs as well.

	16-02-2005 02:59									#281
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I guess it could be used in a limited sense. I can see some possibilities from it, especially when representing the seasons or some macro events during the war. Of course I could use it to represent truly veteran troops on the battlefield, but then I'd have to sacrifice unit spots - and that would be a mess in a scenario this large.

As for upgrading all the units on the battefield at once though, I think that would be unrealistic.

I could always do what I wanted to do in AE I, with "sleeper" units that change from zero movement, no attack, into battle ready units, depicting a "build up" of force that can't be unleashed until a certain point in the game.

I dunno, we'll see.

	16-02-2005 11:47									#282
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In case you need some good freedom fighters
machine guns mounted on the backs of 20's-30's style trucks

Attachment: fa vehicles.gif
This has been downloaded 148 time(s).

	16-02-2005 15:49									#283
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will there be a preview of the units anytime soon?

	16-02-2005 16:35									#284
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Well, are up to drawing a storyboard?

Only noticed this!

Sure thing! What do you need?

Dimensions, content, style...?

	16-02-2005 16:42									#285
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Erika, you should try some 24-bit bmp ToT units...

Far more colours to use!

	16-02-2005 16:43									#286
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Email me with any details, harry - We will talk!

( curtsibling@fire-bug.co.uk )

	17-02-2005 06:45									#287
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quote: Originally posted by Broken_Erika will there be a preview of the units anytime soon?

No, they aren't finished yet. I'm focusing on strategy as my mainstay for the moment.

@Nestor: I just realized that the .alt extension on the events can substitute what we want to do, but I'll have to do some testing. The scenario league aludes to the events being randomized with the .alt extension

Though, I'm wondering if the events will be randomized every time the save is loaded, not just the initial scenario file.

	20-02-2005 02:41									#288
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Curt I don't want you to think I forgot to reply. I've had a sinus infection since Thursday and I just wrote the first part down when Yahoo ate my message. I'm rewriting it as we speak.

	20-02-2005 03:02									#289
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Harry I can more than understand why you'd want to work on the events first before focusing more on the units. In a game this complex.... the events will be an acheivment ten times as great as the units.gif upon completion.

Also, hopefully I'll have some rough idea's for a title.gif to show you within the next week.

	20-02-2005 03:23									#290
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quote: Originally posted by Sarsstock Harry I can more than understand why you'd want to work on the events first before focusing more on the units. In a game this complex.... the events will be an acheivment ten times as great as the units.gif upon completion. Also, hopefully I'll have some rough idea's for a title.gif to show you within the next week.

Cool! Thank you.

	25-02-2005 10:54									#291
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If anyone is keeping a calendar I have started to build the food routes between the cities. I've also kept track of where the food is going to go, whether it be from A to B or A to B to C.

In English this means I'm documenting everything for you Civ entrepeneurs.

Cities have also been populated entirely and improvements have been added.

Evertime a city is lost on the way to Kansas the player will feel it. Food routes have been tagged by Front, so you will feel the burn.

I'll be porting things to ToT exclusively in a little while.



Oh one thing. I remember reading somewhere in some online manual that tech abbreviations in ToT are hardcoded to game interactions (happiness, etc...). How true is this?

	25-02-2005 12:12									#292
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Some great ideas here

	25-02-2005 14:43									#293
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quote: Evertime a city is lost on the way to Kansas the player will feel it. Food routes have been tagged by Front, so you will feel the burn.

Are food trade routes terminated though if a city is captured by another power? Normal trade routes aren't so I'm just wondering if this also holds true for food supplies.

	25-02-2005 18:44									#294
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quote: Are food trade routes terminated though if a city is captured by another power? Normal trade routes aren't so I'm just wondering if this also holds true for food supplies.

No, they are not. In developing Red Front 1.5, Colwyn wanted to set up Leningrad so that it had an adequate food only if it had food trade routes with 3 cities that the Germans were sure to capture. The idea was to starve Leningrad unless the player took drastic action.

I set it up but the idea did not work because the food routes stayed in place when the Germans captured the 3 cities and we had the crazy situation of German-held cities supplying Leningrad with food.

	26-02-2005 06:47									#295
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA No, they are not. In developing Red Front 1.5, Colwyn wanted to set up Leningrad so that it had an adequate food only if it had food trade routes with 3 cities that the Germans were sure to capture. The idea was to starve Leningrad unless the player took drastic action. I set it up but the idea did not work because the food routes stayed in place when the Germans captured the 3 cities and we had the crazy situation of German-held cities supplying Leningrad with food.

Dammit!

Well I'll have to see about this........... At least I've only started to tie in the routes so I haven't put to much work into it....

	26-02-2005 07:03									#296
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Sad to hear about that concept not being a starter, harry!

Well - Good news is that I should have some panels for you this week!

I'll keep ya posted!

	26-02-2005 08:09									#297
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Good to hear Curt! People are going to love it!


OK! I think I found a solution!

I thought about how to terminate a food trade route. The only way is for one of the cities in the chain to be destroyed right?

Well here's the solution:

Originally I had a trade route going from Omaha to New York directly - A to B. Of course, if the Germans capture Omaha the trade route will still continue unless Omaha is destroyed. Well how about I include an intermediary city, that can be destroyed therefore severing the food route?

So, the trade route is now A to B to C. The Intermediary city can be based in the large "off limits" portion of the map, fenced in by impassable terrain.

Option #1:

The Intermediary city is owned by the 6th civ and is placed on terrain that has just enough food production for a size 1 city to survive. The intermediary city can never grow beyond size 1. The 6th civ has no possible units it can build. The Omaha to New York food is run through the city in a wash transfer (netting to zero)

When Omaha is captured by the Germans an event creates a barbarian unit next to the Intermediary city. The barb unit captures the city, destroying it, severing the food route chain.

Option #2:

The Intermediary city is owned by the 6th civ and is placed on terrain that has just enough food production for the city's food production to net out to zero. The Omaha to New York food is run through the city in a wash transfer (netting to zero).

Upon Omaha being captured (or ALL the bread basket cities) an event changes the terrain around the city to a non-food producing terrain, causing a famine in the city. The city loses it's population and disappears, severing the food route chain.


Well how about that? I just tested the famine route for making the intermediary city disappear and it works. Looks like I have an option.

	26-02-2005 10:32									#298
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I thought about how to terminate a food trade route. The only way is for one of the cities in the chain to be destroyed right?

Your solution looks good, but if I understand the problem, there may be a more straightforward answer. The manual states (and it's always right, right?) that famines in the donor city eliminate food routes. What would happen in a direct A to B food link if the donor city goes into famine (e.g ChangeTerrain in the city radius to decrease A's net food to <0, but not destroy it)? Seems too simple – did I overlook something?

	26-02-2005 12:40									#299
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That's the answer! Use 'TakeTechnolgy' to remove Mysticism or something else like it, and throw key cities into disorder. The same thing can be done by giving a tech which makes 'Shakespeare's Theatre' or some other happiness wonder obsolete. Or change terrain adjacent to a city to something less fertile, or just create some partisans which will pillage farmland.

	26-02-2005 19:02									#300
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Make 'em unhappy – now that's a slick trick. I forgot, does that reduce the food values to anarchy levels or does it directly wipe out the food link?