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CEO Aaron
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Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:17
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Spartans are one of the more challenging factions to play, imo. They do have a great deal of flexibility and their military can be quite potent, but the industry penalty and lack of wealth SE choice makes growth comparatively slow. The key to succeeding is to commit to a strategy which works around those problems.
I prefer to play the Spartans with a Police-centric ICS strategy. Get ahold of Doctrine: Loyalty and switch to police state. With +3 police you spread far beyond the bureaucracy limit without worrying about drone problems, and the extra support will allow an impressive early crawler fleet. These two advantages should allow you to get enough bases to increase your tech and production power to the point where you can compete with the more builder-centric factions.
Sooner or later, you're going to encounter a rival faction. When this happens, don't delay, start immediately planning their demise. The industry penalty means you can't afford to be reactive, you have to control the tempo of any conflict, so make sure you have the initiative. Make judicious use of artillery when taking bases, the damage they inflict on enemy garrisons will help preserve your very difficult to replace troops.
Facility-wise, you want to keep it lean. Rec-tanks, Creches, Commons and Command Centers will be the order of the day. Try and get the Command Nexxus, it will save you money and time and go a long way to ensuring the superiority of your ground troops. Put of building labs until your bases are collecting at _least_ 4 labs base. If you have less and are at a loss for what to build, crawlers, colony pods and garrisons are never a bad way to go.
Tech-wise, stay focused on weapon technology. Air power is your first big tech goal, learn to rely on probe teams and/or tech trade to reach parity in non-military technology. Infiltrate your rivals and watch what they research carefully, and you'll be able to make them complete your research for you.
Last edited by CEO Aaron on 11-12-2004 at 07:00
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mart7x5
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One of my objectives when playing Spartans is to have high morale military and do not loose troops often. I plan assaults very carefully. With high production costs replacement of lost units is very costly. Still Industrial Automation is very important.
And of course, Spartans are made for war...
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Slh666
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how many spaces is enough? and how many crawlers do you usually build per base? I'm doing two formers per base now is that ok or should I do more? I'm sorry for all the questions lol
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Senethro
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I've thought that since SMAX the spartans were just a little bit weak. I've wondered if they could be rebalanced upwards by giving them robust industry and moving Value:Power to an earlier tech, thus allowing them to make use of a SE setting that normally comes last at industry -2 rather than -3.
Anyone think this would make a significant difference?
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Kirov
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Warsaw, Poland
Sep 2002
time: 06:17
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I think so, as Power really sucks, and for Spartans even more than for other players (as Spartans lose a bigger percentage of their industry in this way). Spartans should be at least half immune to Power penalties.
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Chaos Theory
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Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:17
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Spartans lose a smaller percentage of production capabilities by running Power than most other factions. This is because they already pay 1.1 times normal (-1 industry) and with Power they pay 1.3 times normal. 1.1/1.3 = .846, so they lose .154 of their production.
A faction with +1 industry, like the Hive, or most factions running Planned, pay .9 times normal without Power, or 1.1 times normal with it. .9/1.1 = .818, so they lose .182 of their production.
Nevertheless, Power is an awful SE choice, even when at war, because it aggravates the effects of attrition. I'll take Very Green units and +2 industry any day over Commando units and -3 industry. Only Elite units can possibly tip the balance, since they get extra moves.
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Kirov
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Warsaw, Poland
Sep 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Spartans lose a smaller percentage of production capabilities by running Power than most other factions. This is because they already pay 1.1 times normal (-1 industry) and with Power they pay 1.3 times normal. 1.1/1.3 = .846, so they lose .154 of their production.
A faction with +1 industry, like the Hive, or most factions running Planned, pay .9 times normal without Power, or 1.1 times normal with it. .9/1.1 = .818, so they lose .182 of their production.
Nevertheless, Power is an awful SE choice, even when at war, because it aggravates the effects of attrition. I'll take Very Green units and +2 industry any day over Commando units and -3 industry. Only Elite units can possibly tip the balance, since they get extra moves. |
You're of course right... My mistake.
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TheClown
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When i think of Colonel Santiago i think of Chile. So SE should be obvious. PS and FM in the A. Pinochet/M. Friedman way. Remember the Spartans are the only original faction that can go FM without becomming pacifist and thereby hindering exploration, competition for pods and still being able to make a good military repsponse without drones getting too many drone problems.
For values Knowledge is the obvious choice (think of ESAs space observatory), reducing the appauling -2 Efficiency to -1 and gaining +1 Research. As stated before Power is normaly not a wise for spartans as the -2 Industry hit them too hard.
The above choices give Spartans a Morgan (DM/PL/WE) - like game (+2 ECO) with some important differrences.
Disadvantages for Spartans:
POLICE (-2 / 0 ): Cant use police - so HG is a must for Spartans. PTS and AV (with NLM - units) being nice too.
EFFICIENCY (-1/+4): No direct conversion of Energy into Labs, and significant pressure against horisontal spread - also meaning Childrens Chreche being important.
If not possible to get rid of the money in any other sensible way, goverment can be changed to DM and start making approx. 80 % conversion to Labs with some 10-20% needed for Psych to fight the pacifist. (after all Pinochet was finally replaced by a democracy)
In some way Spartans need break the bureacracy threshold, as it is necesary to take maximum advantage of the +2 ECO + 2 SUPPORT settings - the importance of happy SPs cannot be under estimated and if necessary some energy must be allocated to psych.
PLANET (-3/+2): Spartans should not be hit so seriously by the -3 Planet - as they hold high morale and can support big amount of formers. But the + 2 for morgans give them a significant better exploration game.
INDUSTRY (-1/+1): This is not a real problem - as the difference in support far upsets this disadvantage for most of the game.
PROBE (-2/0): Not that important if u ask me.
Initial 100 credits: Nice for Morgans to boost his building in beginning of game.
Advantages for Spartans:
SUPPORT (+2/-3): As stated before this far upset the disadvantage for Industry - we r talking about former armies (nice for the crawlers). In combination with the good morale harassing a nearby faction does not seem impossible.
MORALE (+4/-2): Spartan units at same level far outcompet the Morgans and with some luck a good part of them turn into elite (best for infantry). Strong v. psi and probes.
RESEARCH (+1/0): Nice
Initial rover: Nice for Spartans, gives boost to initial exploration.
Hab limit: Although countered by wide horizontal spread, it is still a problem for Morgans to fight this limitation.
Free prototypes: Not that important if u ask me.
TECH-Line:
1. Centaury Ecology and Biogentics. (U want these formers, RTs and the necesary HG)
2. Doc Loy, Social psych and IE. (For making society PS/FM, Rec. commons being a necessity under FM)
3. IA. and. Cyberethics (We need start building crawlers, the PTS and finishing the society model.)
4th etc.. Probably Flex and some military upgrades before getting rid of the restrictions along the road to EE (or perhaps PE for AV and HF) and then airpower.
SPs:
200 shields.
HG is a must.
WP very nice - as the Former army becomes very powerfull making Boreholes. Raising land etc.
Rest can go to the other factions.
300 shields.
PTS very nice almost a must.
VW always nice - but the + 2 Econ make researhospitals good too - so Hologram theatre maybe not that important.
HSA Always very nice
AV. Also nice as possibillity of using 1 police unit would do wonders.
Rest can go to the other factions.
I have just started my first game as Spartans along these lines on Huge Map, Tech Stag. IM. Transcend. I would asume Morgans to be little easier to play under these terms. Especially the +2 planet is nice. The question being if Santiagos Former army can upset this advantage. The funny thing is compared to the Colonel, Morgan becomes the explorer and Santiago the builder
I hope i win.
Last edited by TheClown on 17-12-2004 at 11:40
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Slh666
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I've tried a few ICSing WOW I like it, i've also started building two bore holes per city with two condensor farms that really works good thank you for the help i appreciate it.
Also what is a Grav tank I've yet to see it, is it in smax only or am I just not researching the right techs for it?
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TheClown
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Perhaps some points in my sparta strategy have been misunderstood - which probably is my fault.
I intended to compare the the traditional Morgan set up with Demo/PLANET/Wealth with Spartans Police/FM/Know. As both have +2 Econ making them comparable.
I hoped too prove that Santiago was perhaps one of the better suited factions for a traditional build game as FM not hurt them so much.
"Getting rid of my money" was of course a joke - my point being that efficiency for high Energy conversion to labs is normaly not that important - as investment in procuction often be just as good.
Reaching a specific tech ASAP can of course in somecases be very important for ur strategy, but investment in lets say rushing production of a colony pod is a clearcut investment in further exponential expansion/growth.
The opposit conversion may actually somtimes be more relevant, if having a good exploration game getting many aa. Gaian strategy?
And yes - the repsponse was intended for sp game - but still i have never really used of high PROBE rating as defense - I prefer garrision weak spots with high moral probe teams.
Last edited by TheClown on 18-12-2004 at 07:17
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CEO Aaron
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Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TheClown
Perhaps some points in my sparta strategy have been misunderstood - which probably is my fault.
I intended to compare the the traditional Morgan set up with Demo/PLANET/Wealth with Spartans Police/FM/Know. As both have +2 Econ making them comparable. |
Uh, Demo/Planet/Wealth is far from traditional for Morganite play, unless you're very late in the game. For most of the game, you're running Frontier/Free Market/Wealth, switching to Fundie/Green/Wealth for military endeavors.
quote:
I hoped too prove that Santiago was perhaps one of the better suited factions for a traditional build game as FM not hurt them so much. |
The problem with that outlook is that any true builder faction will outbuild you by leaps and bounds if you just sit back and try to build, and Free Market's lack of drone control rapidly causes unrest issues if you go on a rampaging conquer campaign. Police/FM offers the worst of both worlds, imo. A good quantity of your cash is squandered on inefficiency, and you're still stuck using large volumes of doctors or spending vast amounts of money and minerals building drone control facilities. If you really want to build, just go Demo/FM, and keep the extra energy that FM gives you.
The upshot of all this is that Sparta isn't a builder faction, they're a momentum faction that can build in a pinch. Play a solid momentum game, steal your tech instead of researching it, and once you've stolen the right techs for a pop boom, switch gears and get all your bases to hab limits.
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10-12-2004 04:23
Attachment: 
Neither Morgan nor Spartans can have Demo/Plan/Wealth. Morgans can not run Planned and the Spartans can not run Wealth.
ROTFL! 
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