10-12-2004 10:35									#61
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Actually I don't care for many of today's Bible translators either. They seem to be in it for the money but what is new...

	10-12-2004 11:57									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln It is good to see that there is hope even for atheists. An unbiased look at the origin of life as we understand it thus far does lead one to question the mantra of materialism spewed from people who promote their opinion and personal beliefs in the name of "science".

Haven't we been here before, Lincoln?

For starters, stop confusing atheists with evolutionists, and evolution with abiogenesis.

	10-12-2004 12:24									#63
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Hey, I wouldn't knock that approach. It worked on me.

	10-12-2004 13:17									#64
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Atheists

Fundie Christians, Moslems and such

Wiccans and other twirlballs

Deists

This guy

I win

	10-12-2004 13:18									#65
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maybe he's fearing the reaper. Sagan died an atheist. I probably will too.

Probably? Thats not very convincing che. You can't hedge your bets on it.

	10-12-2004 13:19									#66
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Also, for all the "Oh he's old and fears death and stuffles" folks, notice that he doesn't believe in the Christian understanding of the God, which kinda means no automatic heaven ticket for him, at least as far Christianity is concerned.

	10-12-2004 13:24									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Flew just got old. NO olde, dying person wants to think there isn't a god... It's the fear factor.

Considering he still doesn't believe in an afterlife, what would be the use of changing now.

	10-12-2004 13:27									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Also, for all the "Oh he's old and fears death and stuffles" folks, notice that he doesn't believe in the Christian understanding of the God, which kinda means no automatic heaven ticket for him, at least as far Christianity is concerned.

That's not what he's looking for. He's looking for an afterlife.

	10-12-2004 15:27									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln It is good to see that there is hope even for atheists. An unbiased look at the origin of life as we understand it thus far does lead one to question the mantra of materialism spewed from people who promote their opinion and personal beliefs in the name of "science".

Hmm, really feeling that 'unbiasedness' of yours.



Mantra- hmm, isn't that a 'religious' term?

	10-12-2004 15:29									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It doesn't negate the possibility of blue space goats either, but it is irrational to believe in such things. If people want to argue that it is possible for a God to exist, I don't care. Even if it is possible, and even if such a God does exist, it is irrational to believe in his existence.

Considering just how vast the known universe is, and that the one planet we have intimate knowledge about has a variety of goat species it might even be probable that blue goats exist somewhere.

What differentiates a rational belief (if there is such a thing) from an irrational belief?

	10-12-2004 17:15									#71
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm an atheist not because I don't share religious morals, but because there is no evidence that a deity exists. It is ridiculous to believe in a God.

Many things in life are ridiculous. It is for example ridiculous to believe that socialism or communism works because we have tons of examples it doesnt. We just got to have some faith comrade


Stefu:

	10-12-2004 17:18									#72
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quote: That's not what he's looking for. He's looking for an afterlife.

Look here, UR:

There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

PWND

	10-12-2004 17:23									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's not what he's looking for. He's looking for an afterlife.

Where did he say that?

	10-12-2004 17:25									#74
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What I find laughable is the atheists faith in the Big Bang, the Universe, and stuff as being the end of all enquiry.

Can any genius describe what came before the Big Bang? What caused it? How can something come from nothing? Can you prove it? I didn't thnik so.

The bottom line is that everyone, theist or atheist (or deist) has an assumption that underlies the world view. The atheist will accept on faith that there is nothing but the 'stuff' of the Universe, and that we all came from a primordial bang. The theist will say that if there was a bang, then it can be explained as issuing from some higher order of power in the cosmos.

Neither one has any claim on irrefutable proof for their views. I think that is why these questions continue to crop up. And why exactly does the leading phyicist of our day refer to reading the mind of God?

	10-12-2004 17:31									#75
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NYET: Indeed and thats why it is only rational to believe in the irrational ie have some faith. How many things are 100% proven in life anyway?

Faith, thats the mystery.

	10-12-2004 17:33									#76
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Exactly. And we all have it, faith that is, whether we have faith in God, the stuff of the universe, or little green men.

	10-12-2004 17:37									#77
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The bottom line is that everyone, theist or atheist (or deist) has an assumption that underlies the world view.

Some folks recognize that their underlying assumption is probably not spot-on accurate, and may be completely off target. The annoying people are the ones who are so goddamned certain that their underlying assumptions are infallible (e.g., that atheists are just plain stupid, or that theists are just plain stupid, or something in between) that they go and start stupid trolls on the subject. (The really annoying people are the ones who are infallible to the point that they'll go around killing people who disagree with them, but I'm assuming that none of the poly trolls is quite that insane and/or ballsy.)

	10-12-2004 17:43									#78
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I'd say the people who recognize they have their own bias and admit the possibility of the 'truf' of the others are the rarity.

Beleive me. Atheist zealots can be every bit as scarey as the worst of the fundys.

	10-12-2004 17:49									#79
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I like Lovecraft's perspective personally:

quote: ]"I certainly can't see any sensible position to assume aside from that of complete scepticism tempered by a leaning toward that which existing evidence makes most probable. All I say is that I think it is damned unlikely that anything like a central cosmic will, a spirit world , or an eternal survival of personality exist. They are the most preposterous and unjustified of all the guesses which can be made about the universe, and I am not enough of a hair-splitter to pretend that I don't regard them as arrant and negligble moonshine. In theory I am an agnostic, but pending the appearance of rational evidence I must be classed, practically and provisionally, as an atheist. The chance's of theism's truth being to my mind so microscopically small, I would be a pedant and a hypocrite to call myself anything else." --H.P. Lovecraft

	10-12-2004 17:54									#80
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He makes a good case, but exactly why did some animals develop hollow bones and with that the ability to fly?

Someone has to come forth with the case for intelligent design. It sure as hell ain't explained by Darwin.

	10-12-2004 18:16									#81
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither What I find laughable is the atheists faith in the Big Bang, the Universe, and stuff as being the end of all enquiry.

The universe's existance is rather obvious, nye. And no one has any particular faith in the big bang - in fact, there have been quite a few alternative theories proposed.

	10-12-2004 18:17									#82
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither He makes a good case, but exactly why did some animals develop hollow bones and with that the ability to fly? Someone has to come forth with the case for intelligent design. It sure as hell ain't explained by Darwin.

Yes it is. It was a useful adaptation.

	10-12-2004 18:19									#83
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Exactly. And we all have it, faith that is, whether we have faith in God, the stuff of the universe, or little green men.

The only universal human faith is that the future will be similar to the past, that is, that one can inductively infer rules for the future behavior of objects through observation of the past behavior of objects. And that faith is an integral component of our brains, which is *impossible* to dismiss.

	10-12-2004 19:04									#84
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Sorry if anyone has made this point before, but clearly the guy is 81, scared of dying and is hedging his bets hoping for eternal life.

	10-12-2004 19:20									#85
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quote: Sorry if anyone has made this point before, but clearly the guy is 81, scared of dying and is hedging his bets hoping for eternal life.

yeah like totally

	10-12-2004 19:45									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu yeah like totally

Well, like, I totally tried reading through all the theological BS, got 3/4 of the way down the first page and gave up.

I just thought I would point out the blindingly obvious and try save this thread going down the same route as every other religious thread on 'poly and ending up with 400+ posts with the same people going round and round in philosophical circles...er, totally.

	10-12-2004 19:45									#87
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Sorry if anyone has made this point before, but clearly the guy is 81, scared of dying and is hedging his bets hoping for eternal life.

I need to know this. I don't want to go through baptism and give up Sundays for church if he's going to change his mind again and say god doesn't exist.

Assuming I follow this leading philosphers lead. Which is the right religion again? I don't want to make a mistake in selection. Thank you.

	10-12-2004 19:53									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner t. Assuming I follow this leading philosphers lead. Which is the right religion again? I don't want to make a mistake in selection. Thank you.

As I undestand it there's no point in committing yourself to Christianity early on in your life as as long as you repent (and mean it) anytime before you die youre in the clear with God.

IMHO, to begin with, it'd be better to throw your lott in with one of the other major dieties that maybe requires a longer term commitment, and then do the old switchroo to Christianity at the last minute if you get any last minute, pre death, nerves.

	10-12-2004 19:56									#89
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Is there no way to hedge my bets by committing myself to every major religion (minus Scientology which is just clearly a cult) without the others knowing about it? It would be akin to signing several contracts, but at the last minute, only honoring one?

I'm reminded of Fonzie in the old american sitcom "Happy Days" where he went to church (once) to "cover all his bases" regarding the afterlife.

	10-12-2004 21:26									#90
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Hmm, so one former aethist decides that he's a deist (note: he expressly rejects the gods of the various organized religions). This clearly proves that God, and furthermore the God of the Bible, exists!! Obviously!

Personally, I think it's possible that some sort of supernatural being created the universe and then wandered off to do other things. Hence me being an Agnostic (or soft aethist). Since the origin of the universe is still rather hazy to us (even if you accept the Big Bang Theory, who or what created the material that went Bang?), one must ponder the possibility of some sort of outside factor.

That doesn't exactly prove that Jesus was the son of God and all the rest of the mumbo-jumbo in the Bible.

Besides, aethists do not tend to follow dogma as well as religionistas - so EVEN IF this guy was a person of significance (I've never heard of him, at any rate), that doesn't mean we'd all go 'round saying "oh, so-and-so says there is a God, I guess we're all wrong!").

-Arrian