10-12-2004 22:09									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife. PWND

If it takes a couple of months for him to have a change of heart on the subject of god, how long will it take for him to suddenly believe in an afterlife.

At any rate, a Deist does not believe in the hand of god in this universe. If Flew suggests that the complexity of life is caused by a super intelligence, it can only be an interventionist god.

	11-12-2004 10:18									#92
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I just realized that, by mistake, I didn't post the entire article on poly. My bad.

It has been fixed, though. Check the first post.

	11-12-2004 10:23									#93
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Then he believes in a god rather than a God?

	11-12-2004 10:24									#94
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A god rather than the Judeo-Christianity God.

	11-12-2004 10:30									#95
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So he still doen't know who to worship? He's still going to burn in hell then isn't he?!! ;O)

	11-12-2004 10:35									#96
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quote: Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

This totally puts a certain argument against Flew to rest.

	11-12-2004 10:44									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy This totally puts a certain argument against Flew to rest.

Indeed! We have a quote from someone who purports to (perhaps) know the mind of a senile old philiospher.

Either way, conciously or subconciously, Flews is running scared!

	11-12-2004 10:51									#98
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Indeed! We have a quote from someone who purports to (perhaps) know the mind of a senile old philiospher. Either way, conciously or subconciously, Flews is running scared!

So what are you trying to say? That just because the guy now believes in God that makes him senile?

There are young that believe in God, like myself (25), but that doesn't make them senile.

	11-12-2004 10:56									#99
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One distinctive feature of us atheists is we aren't sheep. We don't blindly listen to "authority," we make our own decisions based on logic and rational thinking. We don't have a holy book we hold sacred, that we interpret every word of it literally.

	11-12-2004 11:19									#100
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maybe he's fearing the reaper. Sagan died an atheist. I probably will too.

Comparing yourself to Carl Sagan are we now Che? I'll be blunt with you. I knew Carl Sagan and frankly you're not.......................................................................................................................................................................................... that rich!

	11-12-2004 11:57									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker We have experience of the dinosaurs.

We do? Godzilla doesn't count neither do bones.

ACK!

	11-12-2004 14:37									#102
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Never could understand the faith in God or certainty God doesn't exist. How many atheists really looked for evidence of God instead of dismissing the notion because of silly sounding myths that may be based on something else that isn't silly?

	11-12-2004 15:10									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker How many atheists really looked for evidence of God ?

Such as?


Revelation doesn't require evidence or fact, just faith. The kind of evidence, standard of proofs and thinking that is required to establish, say continental drift as fact, isn't necessary or desirable when it comes to proving items of faith such as transsubstantiation or the existence of any god.

	11-12-2004 16:27									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Never could understand the faith in God or certainty God doesn't exist.

Is the notion of god less silly than elves dancing on electrons, an invisible purple with pink polka dot unicorn, or an unseen, noncorporeal dog that follows you around?

	11-12-2004 16:30									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger ... an invisible purple with pink polka dot unicorn, or an unseen, noncorporeal dog that follows you around?

Are you keeping track of my familiars ?

	11-12-2004 18:20									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Agathon: The dinosaurs only existed once in the history of the world (as far as we know) and no-one experienced them... Does that mean they didn't exist and is therefor silly? No. And that is a really sad answer by the way. We have evidence of the existence of dinosaurs: fossils and the like. Given what we know about animals, geology and suchlike, which is based on countless examples, it is a reasonable assertion. How do we know that the laws of nature were the same 50,000,000 years ago? We don't. One of the irrational things we do is engage in inductive inferences, we can't live without them.

Difficult,
as the Dinosaur Bones could have been buried by the Planet Builders of Magratea, as they created earth.
(see HHGTG for Reference )
(although it seems to be very unlikely )

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Haven't we been here before, Lincoln? For starters, stop confusing atheists with evolutionists, and evolution with abiogenesis.

Yep, there are big differences in the thiongs people believe.
I for my part believe that there is such thing as a god (although not in a strict christian manner) and an afterlife, and can even accept that Jesus was some kind of Prophet for God,
but I strictly deny that the Bible is a holy book which has to be taken literally (especially in case of Creation vs. Evolution).
(after all the bible is a collection made by a human organization of books written by several human authors. and even if I think that the things Jesus said and did were inspired by some kind of god, all other testimonies within the Bible IMHO have to be taken with a grain of salt (and Jesus AFAIK never said, that he would give the people a holy book which they should take literally; instead he gave people examples of proper behavior through the things he did))

(I also believe, that all Religions only grasp a partt of the truth, but that no Religion could claim to possess the whole truth [which is a thing many religions do])

	11-12-2004 19:14									#108
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Big news, yeah right.

Almost every single HC-atheist in the western world becomes a devout christian after the age of 60, just before dying because of their age. Those few who don't will soon find themselves from the signatures of the next generation of HC-atheists at Apolyton.

Most 'atheists' are just some sort of college frat boy pussies, looking for an excuse to **** around and live recklessly.

In other words: Spam thread! Yay!

	11-12-2004 20:21									#109
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Most 'atheists' are just some sort of college frat boy pussies, looking for an excuse to **** around and live recklessly.

Uh huh.

No belief in god != no ethics.

	11-12-2004 21:02									#110
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Most 'atheists' are just some sort of college frat boy pussies, looking for an excuse to **** around and live recklessly.

	11-12-2004 23:14									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Uh huh. No belief in god != no ethics.

UR!!! You just turned yourself in!

	11-12-2004 23:15									#112
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You too Guynemer!

	11-12-2004 23:17									#113
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I don't tell Christians and other theists who and what they are; I don't think it is out of line to expect the same in return.

	11-12-2004 23:44									#114
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Philosopher. Based on scientific evidence. This is just stupid....

I will join Ramo and Krazyhorse with this one :

	11-12-2004 23:46									#115
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither He makes a good case, but exactly why did some animals develop hollow bones and with that the ability to fly? Someone has to come forth with the case for intelligent design. It sure as hell ain't explained by Darwin.

I'm curious if you have actually read any papers from evolutionary biologists about the development of flight in animals. Because evolutionary theory certainly has explained the development quite convincingly.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/verteb...ght/evolve.html

The "case" for intelligent design is a poor one. It is simply a "God in the Gaps" argument--if we can't immediately explain how something came to be, then an "intelligent designer" did it. It's no different than the ancient belief that magnetism was magic.

There is no scientific evidence for ID--not a bit. It's biggest proponent with any scientific credibility, Michael Behe (a molecular bilogist), has presented the "Irreducible Complexity" argument, but evolutionary biologists have routinely shown that Behe doesn't know what he's talking about and makes scads of unjustified assumptions.

Speaking of explanations, how does ID explain the abundant evidence for jury-rigging in nature?

Flews argument is specious, and any cosmologist can easily poke huge fat holes in the whole "causation" nonsense (ie, cause and effect require a temporal relationship. Time did not yet exist at the moment of the Big Bang, so the idea of a "cause" or something preceding it at all is simply a wrong way of thinking of it).

	11-12-2004 23:48									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I don't tell Christians and other theists who and what they are; I don't think it is out of line to expect the same in return.

Indeed. VJ's comment was as asinine as someone asserting that most "Christians" are x, y, z. I doubt VJ has met most atheists.

	11-12-2004 23:49									#117
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What are you talking about Boris?
Surely youre not saying lightning is a natural phenomena!
And disease always come when Im not nice with my faimly...

I dont see any other explanation than Zeus is mad!!!

	11-12-2004 23:51									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Is the notion of god less silly than elves dancing on electrons, an invisible purple with pink polka dot unicorn, or an unseen, noncorporeal dog that follows you around?

Yay for the dancing elves

	11-12-2004 23:53									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski We do? Godzilla doesn't count neither do bones. ACK!

Bones certainly count as evidence.

	11-12-2004 23:55									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Flews argument is specious, and any cosmologist can easily poke huge fat holes in the whole "causation" nonsense (ie, cause and effect require a temporal relationship. Time did not yet exist at the moment of the Big Bang, so the idea of a "cause" or something preceding it at all is simply a wrong way of thinking of it).

Uh, yes it did. The Big Bang wasn't a moment of creation, that's the whole idiocy of their point.