13-12-2004 02:40									#61
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What would happen to price of the house if opportunists like you didn't buy them in the first place? Maybe then everyone could afford one. Did you ever think of that?

Yep. You know what I did? Get ready...this is top secret stuff you're about to read.

I went to a realtor!

Wow...amazing stuffs. There were thousands of houses for sale. Thousands.

Some had been on the market for a long time. A year or more.

The people who owned them were getting tired of holding onto them and were ready to deal on price.

So we negotiated.

Here's the next big secret. The work I did was entirely available to the public! That means that ANYONE could have done EXACTLY the same thing.

Anyone.

3% down, Kid. That's all it takes. Save up enough for three % down (15% in my case, since these are investment props). So I actually had to pay FIVE TIMES MORE than people looking to buy a primary residence.

Five hundred percent more!!! Gosh I feel exploited now.

Here's the third big secret. Right now...today...there are more houses on the market than there were when I purchased!

There's a constant supply of them. That happens when people live in a free society and can come and go as it suits them. I like that a lot.

Here's the third big secret. Wanna know how many homes are owned by investors in Richland County (where I live)? 3%.

Yep. 3%.

Which tells me that 97% are owned by the folks actually living in them.

Which tells me that, best case, if NO ONE bought investment properties, housing prices would drop by....3%.

Median housing prices in this area are $80,000

3% of 80k (your downpayment) would be $2400.00


97% of that value (if no one were buying investment properties and the housing price dropped by the predicted 3%) $2328...or seventy-two dollars.

But that's prolly not the answer you were hoping for.

-=Vel=-

	13-12-2004 02:41									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski What's wrong with it Kid? It's better than the government contemplating a need I have then figuring out a way to keep me from it. ACK!

Um. No. It's not. Obviously one way favors the rich.

	13-12-2004 02:43									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Um. No. It's not. Obviously one way favors the rich.

And they other way favors sheep that can't think for themselves.

Besides which, in Vel's example, the people are getting a place to live.

You only seem to look at who gets the money in a capitalist system.

You never talk about the results of giving the money to someone else.

Therefore, by your definition, you are a capitalist, since money is the only object you seem to care about

ACK!

	13-12-2004 02:44									#64
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quote: 3% down, Kid. That's all it takes. Save up enough for three % down (15% in my case, since these are investment props). So I actually had to pay FIVE TIMES MORE than people looking to buy a primary residence. Five hundred percent more!!! Gosh I feel exploited now.

Four hundred percent more. Lying capitalist exploiter

	13-12-2004 02:45									#65
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Vel,

I have absolutely not desire to buy houses to rent them out to poor people who can't afford to buy them. Honestly, I could never live with myself.

If you wouldn't have bought that house to rent it out the price would have dropped and the sellers would have to work something out with the residents so that they could have bought the house, but because of opportunists like you inflating prices with your speculation and expectations for rent, they get exploited. It's systematic, and you are just as guilty as the next guy. You got some serious blood on your hands.

	13-12-2004 02:46									#66
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quote: If you wouldn't have bought that house to rent it out the price would have dropped and the sellers would have to work something out with the residents so that they could have bought the house, but because of opportunists like you inflating prices with your speculation and expectations for rent, they get exploited. It's systematic, and you are just as guilty as the next guy. You got some serious blood on your hands.

Did you just read the big post explaining how much the price would've gone down had there been no speculators?

$72

	13-12-2004 02:46									#67
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'zazel: Well, if the soviets had the exact same definition for capitalist (Websters, in case you were wondering), then the point does indeed stand.

Capitalism IS the act of applying capital to wealth creation. Capitalists ARE the wielders (and often owners) of that wealth.

That's just what the word means.

Tubes: on the $100.00 bucks...sure...no interest, and pay me back whenever...check's in the mail...

Kid: It's better than the government contemplating a need I have then figuring out a way to keep me from it.


I hate to disappoint you, but I do not spend a large amount of time each day contemplating YOUR needs.

Nor do I try to keep you from them, whatever they may be.

I do not claim (like you and many of your red brothers) to KNOW what it is that you need. I assume you do. That's....sorta your responsibility as a human being...you know? To figure out your own needs?

One would imagine so, at any rate.

So....in the absence of knowing what your needs may be, in no way and at no time do I try and prevent you from achieving them.

Your point, with that rant?

-=Vel=-

	13-12-2004 02:47									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Vel, I have absolutely not desire to buy houses to rent them out to poor people who can't afford to buy them. Honestly, I could never live with myself. If you wouldn't have bought that house to rent it out the price would have dropped and the sellers would have to work something out with the residents so that they could have bought the house, but because of opportunists like you inflating prices with your speculation and expectations for rent, they get exploited. It's systematic, and you are just as guilty as the next guy. You got some serious blood on your hands.

And therefore, the poor people remain homeless.

ACK!

	13-12-2004 02:48									#69
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quote: 'zazel: Well, if the soviets had the exact same definition for capitalist (Websters, in case you were wondering), then the point does indeed stand. Capitalism IS the act of applying capital to wealth creation. Capitalists ARE the wielders (and often owners) of that wealth. That's just what the word means.

Thus, anyone who creates wealth by applying capital, is a capitalist. including the soviets.

	13-12-2004 02:50									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx I hate to disappoint you, but I do not spend a large amount of time each day contemplating YOUR needs.

Bullshit. You bought the property because you knew there were people who couldn't buy a house. Don't ****ing act like you think everone can buy a house. You ****ing know damn well everyone can't. You count on it so that you can collect rent. ****ing liar.

	13-12-2004 02:51									#71
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Walker...d'oh! Oops...my bad. Yep...I'm SUCH a pigdog!

Kid: Read the post that Walker references. Not the answer you wanted, but... I can't help that.

Blood on my hands? For what? Taking INITIATIVE? Fixing the places up and making them livable again? Turning houses into homes that people WANT to live in. That people freely CHOOSE to live in?

Expecting SOMETHING in exchange for my hard work?

Oh yes. That makes me a very bad man indeed. What should I do? Because I have the money, buy the houses and give them to the needy? If I did, would they not be exploiting MY labor?

-=Vel=-

	13-12-2004 02:53									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Bullshit. You bought the property because you knew there were people who couldn't buy a house. Don't ****ing act like you think everone can buy a house. You ****ing know damn well everyone can't. You count on it so that you can collect rent. ****ing liar.

Like Vel pointed out, they don't HAVE to rent from him. I guess you think all apartment building should be tore down as well.

Only people that can afford housing should have housing?

You may not think you are saying that, but you are.

ACK!

	13-12-2004 02:53									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Bullshit. You bought the property because you knew there were people who couldn't buy a house. Don't ****ing act like you think everone can buy a house. You ****ing know damn well everyone can't. You count on it so that you can collect rent. ****ing liar.

He also knew that none of them would've been able to buy a house if he gave them $72.

	13-12-2004 02:53									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Oh yes. That makes me a very bad man indeed. What should I do? Because I have the money, buy the houses and give them to the needy? If I did, would they not be exploiting MY labor?

Don't buy the houses ****er. You know other people need them to live in. Why the **** would you buy them, unless you are a ****er.

	13-12-2004 02:54									#75
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Because even if he doesn't buy them, the other people won't be able to live in them?

	13-12-2004 02:55									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Don't buy the houses ****er. You know other people need them to live in. Why the **** would you buy them, unless you are a ****er.

Losing so bad you have to resort to calling him a ****er.



ACK!

	13-12-2004 02:57									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Because even if he doesn't buy them, the other people won't be able to live in them?

Thus you show your complete ingnorance of economics.

	13-12-2004 02:57									#78
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'zazel - I suppose, if you wanna look at it that way, yes. The difference again tho, is that in a capitalist society, the person in question uses the capital to PURCHASE assets. Ownership.

This is the piece of the puzzle that is missing from the command ec. approach, and what makes it fundamentally different.

Kid: Ohhh....gonna make it personal now, are we? 'k. I've got thick skin, so yes, let's continue to use me as an example.

And you should join the psychic hotline with that direct feed into my brain. Since you seem to know my thoughts and motives and all that.

Amazing.

Truthfully, I bought the houses because I thought I could do well at it. I thought I could fix them up and rent them out for cheaper than the prevailing market prices, and thus, attract people who WANTED to rent (believe it or not, the people renting my houses out don't WANT to own a place of their own....too much upkeep and they don't want to be bothered).

Different strokes for different folks.

I give them what they want at a price that beats the market, and everybody wins.

I know that must chaffe you to no end, given your hatred for capitalism (and by extension I would imagine, given your tone and venom, of me), but that is the plain truth.

You can rant and gripe all day long, but it won't change the facts.

Also true is the fact that 3% down can get you into a primary residence. There are homes for sale here starting at 60k. $1800 down, by the way, with monthly payments right around three hundred (average rents here are $550, so you can see why the rental housing market is a bit softish)

So yeah, pretty much anybody who wants one at that price (even people working doublels at micky d's) can get into something.

Are you having a bad day?

-=Vel=-

	13-12-2004 02:58									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Losing so bad you have to resort to calling him a ****er. ACK!

No. I call him that because he is one. I could care less about winning or losing. He's a ****er who tries to act like he's helping people.

	13-12-2004 03:00									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Thus you show your complete ingnorance of economics.

...

Did you notice how, if there were NO speculators, the cost would go down $72?

I'm sure there's a whole RAFT of people who are 72$ short of owning a home. What a bastard

	13-12-2004 03:00									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No. I call him that because he is one. I could care less about winning or losing. He's a ****er who tries to act like he's helping people.

You really should have read the post right above yours.

I am one of those people that doesn't want to buy a house.

$550 for rent of a house is really quite cheap.

ACK!

	13-12-2004 03:00									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Kid: Ohhh....gonna make it personal now, are we? 'k. I've got thick skin, so yes, let's continue to use me as an example.

YES, IT'S ****ING PERSONAL *******! WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK! MAYBE YOU WILL GET A ****ING CLUE *******!

	13-12-2004 03:01									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious YES, IT'S ****ING PERSONAL *******! WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK! MAYBE YOU WILL GET A ****ING CLUE *******!

Did Vel run over your cat or something?

Sad.

ACK!

	13-12-2004 03:04									#85
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Yes that's what it is moron. He ran over my cat. *******.

	13-12-2004 03:05									#86
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So now you would tell me...dictate to me what I can or cannot do with the fruits of my own labor?

The money I WORKED for?

Would it not be simpler to look after your own affairs, and be content to let me look after mine?

Isn't that the essence of freedom?

It seems rather boorish to demand to stick your nose into everyone's business all the time. To demand to know exactly what everyone's doing at all times, and if you don't like it, to dictate to them what they can and cannot do. How to live, where to work....this is all starting to come full circle, see?

You don't know what's in my head. You don't know my motives (tho you do a fine job of pretending that you do and assuming the very worst). You don't know the folks renting from me, nor their motives for doing so. And yet, despite this total lack of information, you make the leap of faith and assume that I must have dragged these marginal people off the street and forced them at gunpoint to live in my home, and pay me exhorbitant rents that far exceed the prevailing market price and the greater bulk of their meager paychecks because I am an evil and wretched man.

NOTHING could be further from the truth.

One family is military. They won't be here long but they don't know how long, and they don't want the hassle of buying a home here and having to sell it later. The place I offered them is only a little more than post housing, and significantly bigger, with a fenced in back yard.

The other guy is a solitary type. Software developer. He doesn't want the hassle of maintenance and upkeep, so prefers to rent, rather than own, and he makes more than enough money to buy if he wanted to.

He chooses not to.

We made a deal.

A mutually agreeable deal.

Does that sound particularly mosterous?

-=Vel=-

	13-12-2004 03:05									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yes that's what it is moron. He ran over my cat. *******.

Have you ever tried BAN roll-on?



ACK!

	13-12-2004 03:05									#88
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quote: 'zazel - I suppose, if you wanna look at it that way, yes. The difference again tho, is that in a capitalist society, the person in question uses the capital to PURCHASE assets. Ownership.

Actually by pointing out "purchasing", ownership isn't the word that you wanted to imply, since the organization, be it "the government", "the corporation", or the "enterpreneur" will all own it. The difference would be the way it would be created from capital. The capital may come in form of raw products, or human labour in it's various forms, or it may come in currency, that could buy all these things. After all, purchasing a ready economic infrastructure is just changing hands in a hope to optimize it and make it more profitable than it was, and the capital will be used somewhere else, by the previous owner, probably to build some new infrastructure, or maybe to destroy the capital, wasting it on candy.

	13-12-2004 03:08									#89
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Azazel - capital can also refer to machines - say a factory. Hiring people to work in the factory would be application of capital.

	13-12-2004 03:08									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Have you ever tried BAN roll-on? ACK!

Like I really want to talk to you *******s!