14-12-2004 00:07									#61
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che is gonna adopt 18 year old asian twins...

he'll be Woody Allen's idol!

	14-12-2004 00:08									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Right, in ideal, laboratory tested conditions. Real life tends to be a little less ideal though.

Which is why abstinance only education, while ideally 100% effective, tends to fail, since real life tends to be a little less ideal.

Oh, how easy was that?

	14-12-2004 00:08									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi No, it's even more than that! What about taking care of your partner?

During sex? You can do that as a teenager.

	14-12-2004 00:09									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi What about taking care of your partner?

Sex doesn't mean taking care of your partner either.

	14-12-2004 00:09									#65
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Che:

Unless of course you want one. Then they turn into little angels, with bright smiles, big eyes, and plump cheeks. A miraculous transformation.

	14-12-2004 00:09									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Japher che is gonna adopt 18 year old asian twins... he'll be Woody Allen's idol!

I don't know whether to be tittlated or appalled.

	14-12-2004 00:10									#67
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quote: Sex doesn't mean taking care of your partner either.

Sure it does. The partner whom you are with, you are supposed to take care of them.

	14-12-2004 00:10									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Che: Unless of course you want one. Then they turn into little angels, with bright smiles, big eyes, and plump cheeks. A miraculous transformation.

BAH! Propaganda from the breeder conspiracy!

	14-12-2004 00:11									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Sure it does. The partner whom you are with, you are supposed to take care of them.

That isn't sex. Sex may be involved, but it doesn't have to be.

	14-12-2004 00:12									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Sure it does. The partner whom you are with, you are supposed to take care of them.

In what sense? Make sure they get an orgasm?

	14-12-2004 00:12									#71
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quote: Which is why abstinance only education, while ideally 100% effective, tends to fail, since real life tends to be a little less ideal.

True. But because the good is not upheld by everyone, does nothing to affect the value of the good. One would in fact anticipate that the good would be harder to acheive, and that more people would fail.

	14-12-2004 00:12									#72
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quote: Which is why abstinance only education, while ideally 100% effective, tends to fail, since real life tends to be a little less ideal

abstinance is the only way to avoid such problems, 100% of the time.

There shouldn't be abstinance ONLY teachings, but it should be encouraged. Condoms should be made available, not passed out like pencils.

Sex should be a choice, and not just the choice of the action but of the consiquences that come along with it. Many kids don't know, or are unwilling to face such consiquences; they are the ones I have a problem with. Ignorance can not be tolerated, but neither can lack of responsibilities for ones actions.

	14-12-2004 00:13									#73
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And Ben, there are rather significant differences between taking care of one's partner and taking care of a child. If you equate your partner to a child, then you're even more backward than I thought.

-Arrian

	14-12-2004 00:13									#74
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That is only if you think that abstinance is 'good'. I disagree.

	14-12-2004 00:14									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Japher abstinance is the only way to avoid such problems, 100% of the time. There shouldn't be abstinance ONLY teachings, but it should be encouraged. Condoms should be made available, not passed out like pencils. Sex should be a choice, and not just the choice of the action but of the consiquences that come along with it. Many kids don't know, or are unwilling to face such consiquences; they are the ones I have a problem with. Ignorance can not be tolerated, but neither can lack of responsibilities for ones actions.

I agree, mostly (encouraged might be a little strong for my taste. It should be noted that it's the only 100% safe way to avoid pregnacy and/or STDs). The only thing that strikes me as odd is the "passed out like pencils" allegation. I certainly didn't see that in public school. Hell, even in college it wasn't true (you had to go to the med clinic and take them from the basket. But they were "Lifestyles" which SUCK).

-Arrian

	14-12-2004 00:14									#76
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quote: In what sense? Make sure they get an orgasm?

No, like you protect your partner from others, that you will love them afterwards.

	14-12-2004 00:15									#77
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Anal sex is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy.

	14-12-2004 00:16									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Ignorance can not be tolerated, but neither can lack of responsibilities for ones actions.

There is a matter of teen brains not being fully developed, specifically in the area that deals with undertanding cnosequences.

	14-12-2004 00:16									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi No, like you protect your partner from others, that you will love them afterwards.

Serious? There is no requirement you take care of your partner. Haven't you heard of casual sex? There is NOTHING wrong with that, as long as if you don't want children, you take precautions.

	14-12-2004 00:17									#80
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I can see Imran's point, but it should be presented as an option. Many kids face the pressure of having sex, this shouldn't happen. Education is the only way to remove unwanted pressure from the kids.

quote: The only thing that strikes me as odd is the "passed out like pencils" allegation. I certainly didn't see that in public school. Hell, even in college it wasn't true (you had to go to the med clinic and take them from the basket. But they were "Lifestyles" which SUCK).

when I went to school sex was still "taboo", so I really don't know how it is, but that is how it seems to many ppl. Especially with Planned Parenthood being able to take kids from the campus to council the kids without parents present in some instances.

	14-12-2004 00:17									#81
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Arrian:

We had them handed out like pencils in our mandatory 'sex ed classes.'

quote: And Ben, there are rather significant differences between taking care of one's partner and taking care of a child. If you equate your partner to a child, then you're even more backward than I thought.

Not at all, "the two will become one flesh, and for that reason a child will leave his mother and his father."

The bond between the two should be stronger than even the bond between a mother and her children.

	14-12-2004 00:18									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi No, like you protect your partner from others, that you will love them afterwards.

I protect my friends from others. Does that mean I should have sex with them? You would protect your children from others? Treating people decently is not limited to sexual relationships. Nor should sex be limited to people who want such relationships. If I wanna go have a one night stand, that's really none of your business.

	14-12-2004 00:18									#83
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I went to high school in the late 90s and we didn't have the condoms passed out like pencils either.

Frankly I think everyone should engage in premartial sex . Sexual incompatibility with your partner is something to be discovered BEFORE marriage, not after!

	14-12-2004 00:18									#84
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Casual sex, IMO, only works well if both people are really just interested in casual sex, and nothing more. Often, it seems, it doesn't work that way.

If you have sex with someone, IMO, you have a certain obligation to give a **** about their feelings. If you're not willing to deal with the potential emotional baggage that comes with sex, go home & jerk off.

-Arrian

	14-12-2004 00:19									#85
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True, but that is backwards. If you would protect those you love less than your partner, then surely you ought also to protect your partner?

	14-12-2004 00:19									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Especially with Planned Parenthood being able to take kids from the campus to council the kids without parents present in some instances.

If parents did an adequate job, this wouldn't be necessary. Since parents have abrogated this responsibility to the schools, they really can't complain.

	14-12-2004 00:20									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I went to high school in the late 90s and we didn't have the condoms passed out like pencils either.

We didn't have pencils passed out. You lucky bastards!

	14-12-2004 00:21									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian If you have sex with someone, IMO, you have a certain obligation to give a **** about their feelings. If you're not willing to deal with the potential emotional baggage that comes with sex, go home & jerk off. -Arrian

If you're going to outlaw being an *******, I think the jails are gonna get a little crowded.

	14-12-2004 00:22									#89
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quote: If parents did an adequate job, this wouldn't be necessary. Since parents have abrogated this responsibility to the schools, they really can't complain.

How have they abrogated their responsibility? If they have the responsibility to teach their children about sex, then surely there ought to be more acceptable methods of this education other than the classes they have in school.

If they only acceptable form of sex education is outside of the hands of the parents, then they have hardly abrogated their responsibility.

	14-12-2004 00:22									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Arrian: We had them handed out like pencils in our mandatory 'sex ed classes.' Not at all, "the two will become one flesh, and for that reason a child will leave his mother and his father." The bond between the two should be stronger than even the bond between a mother and her children.

But it's a different type of bond. It's a bond between equals. Parent-child is NOT a relationship of equals. If you think your spouse isn't your equal, then like I said, you're more backward than I thought.

-Arrian

edit: as to the pencil thing - well, you live in Canada, and everyone knows Canada is weird.

My understanding is that those who want to hand out condoms to everyone are those who understand that most kids are going to have sex, and given that figure it's the best way to help prevent unwanted pregnancy & the spread of STDs.